I am looking to implement a few changes over the strafing system in my mod, and i want comments about them. (negative/positive points)
Strafe spriting will not be possible, and will simply be ignored (pressing the strafe+sprint will perform normal strafing and will not take any stamina like normal strafing)
Something which i never understood - strafing doesn’t pulse your aim, meaning if you strafe/move/jump it doesn’t effect your weapon spread (the random distance from the actual place you aim for), and actually the only non-shooting thing which effect the spread is moving your cursor fast.
Having said that, i plan to give some basic (small) spread when you strafe (and of course more spread if you run)
I’m not doing this for realism, i’m doing this for balance, i think that if someone strafe dodges he should get aim reducal or it just doesn’t make sense. (adding too much luck factor to games, and like everyone knows any normal clan game has non-stop strafe dodging, seems a lil’ dumb to me, but we are doing that because it has no drawbacks)
I would like to see people’s opinions on these features because i believe they are quite important, if you think one feature is good but one is bad say so, i’m not going to implement those things until i get a good view about it.
Why should strafing effect your aim more than any other kind of running? In a quake-based game, strafing doesn’t represent that you’re actually running sideways: it means that your gun is pointing someplace other than where you’re running.
That clause does not make sense. Any feature which two opposing players can utilize equally is automatically balanced. Your proposed change will NOT increase (or decrease) balance- thus it must be either to increase realism, or game variety, or something else.
That sentence does not make sense. You say that adding too much luck is dumb, yet you want to increase the randomness of bullets fired while strafing- which will add luck!
If you want to tweak on weapon accuracies, then there are many places that need help more than strafe-aiming. For example, the fact that shooting a (non-scoped) rifle from a crouch is less accurate than firing a pistol while moving? That should change. It hurts realism and funness too.
strafing down the little hill just after stealing the allies tank on goldrush makes my aim go way off, but then I do tend to get down that hill in about 3-4 seconds as I’m jumping pretty damn far and if someone shoots at me while I’m strafin I’ve got like 30% chance of killin him once I’m down there as I’m already badly wounded, soooo leave the aim spread alone =D
That sentence does not make sense. You say that adding too much luck is dumb, yet you want to increase the randomness of bullets fired while strafing- which will add luck!
And how do i contradict myself ??
1.When someone strafe dodges the current fight changes from pure aiming to 50% aiming 50% luck (for the other player), while the strafe dodger change to hit is still 100% aim (though obviously a little trickier since he moves it’s still aim.
2.When both of them strafe dodge, The whole fight gets a 50% luck factor, so basically what i meant to say, is we see a lot of luck being in places it shouldn’t.
If the strafe dodger would get a slight accuracy drop (yes slight, i’m not going to turn his weapon to an fg42) it seems to me it will even it up, people who crouch should have a more balanced aim for example, and for now the only thing they get is less spread when they shoot.
I’m thinking of dropping the first idea, and make the second idea as an optional cvar for servers, at least a pulsewhile strafe sprinting, which i think it’s a must have.
As for the accuracy thing, it’s something which would raise too much debate, in case you don’t know every weapon has zero spread on the first round, and a pistol has recoil rather than spread.
strafing down the little hill just after stealing the allies tank on goldrush makes my aim go way off, but then I do tend to get down that hill in about 3-4 seconds as I’m jumping pretty damn far and if someone shoots at me while I’m strafin I’ve got like 30% chance of killin him once I’m down there as I’m already badly wounded, soooo leave the aim spread alone =D
Hehehe,
Fusen i’m not going to change the current jump spread, which i think is cool, but i’m reffering to the no spread while moving/running …
Well i think a larger spread while running is imperetive (aye aye captain).
But as for normal moving - we all move normally in fights, but it just doesn’t make sense to me that every strafe dodge takes some juice out of the game if you ask me.
Again thanks for your various feedback, but i haven’t really seen <u>any</u> decent comments on the ideas, and by decent comments i mean replies which explain how this change could hurt rather than criticizing my post. (a shame)
Haha… not to piss you off, but I’m kinda going the opposite direction… more jumpay, more sprint, more accuracy
There is a fixed value of 850 used two times in the code (maybe more?), I guess g_pmove.c… that is the minimum time between two jumps methinks. Increase it for less “bunnyness”… set it lower for Teh Whee!
Yeh i’ve noticed that one =]
Good luck with your mod man.
As for me, i think i’ll delay this strafing thing until i’ll get more insights about it, i’ll focus on balancing the actual classes/weapons and getting my mod ready for releasing.
Hah, look what I just came across! In bg_pmove.c, function AdjustAimSpreadScale - I’m in the middle of changing other things so I can’t check it out right now, but that might be the solution for your problem huh?
// take player movement into account (even if only for the scoped weapons)
// TODO: also check for jump/crouch and adjust accordingly
if(BG_IsScopedWeapon(pm->ps->weapon)) {
for(i = 0; i < 2; i++) {
viewchange += fabs(pm->ps->velocity[i]);
}
} else {
// take player view rotation into account
for( i = 0; i < 2; i++ ) {
viewchange += fabs( SHORT2ANGLE(pm->cmd.angles[i]) - SHORT2ANGLE(pm->oldcmd.angles[i]) );
}
}
Fix the MG42 and Soldier. From a fellow Soldier im sure you know how fucked up it is.
Things I would change if I could:[ul]
[li] ETPro has already but, Weaponslot 2 for SMG @ HWLevel 4.
[/li][li] Delay/Bug between switching from Panzer/MG42/etc to Pistol OR SMG. Seems to just stick for a couple of seconds before switching.
[/li][li] If u Jump up from MG42 prone itll stick out for an extra few seconds before returning to normal state. Afterwards fireing is sticker too.
[/li][li] Field of Vision. Fix this so your not limited AS much. Still keep a limit but increase it a bit more.
[/li][li] Some sort of Improved Marker for Mortar?
[/li][/ul]
As for the strafing, would be nice if each class had there own movements. Eg, Soldier would be slower say than a Field Ops (Fastest). Where as Medic/CovOps/Engy would maybe be Middle Speed. Gives a more authentic feel… Fops can get that extra bit ahead to Scout out areas and get some Arty down while the slower, more ‘backup’ class will trail behind to clean up the mess.
I’m going to fix mg bugs soon, and by the way the delay switch is intentional.
As for speeds, there’s no reason to tweak them since they would imbalance the game.
why change it. i guess it would be cool but there are ALWAYS drawbacks to mods. if you want realism go for counter-strike, I think it should be kept as is.
Well i wouldn’t really call it realism, it’s just logic, you got something strong you want it to have some weakness.
for example, if you crouch you get less spread with your gun, weakness you move slower.
so i think that if you move fast you would get more spread, seems logical.
oh well …
there are just so many strafe dodgers in this game, so i’ll never get a good comment.
That’s the first time you mentioned the opinion that strafing is based on luck. Why do you think so? (Please tell me the line in the game source code where it makes a random() function call as you start to strafe, and then I’ll believe it)
How do you distinguish between “balanced aim” and “less spread”? What can the game possibly do to hurt your aim, besides giving it a random spread?
As for the accuracy thing, it’s something which would raise too much debate, in case you don’t know every weapon has zero spread on the first round,
Ha ha ha!!! You should learn a little about this game before you claim you can improve it! That’s totally wrong. All (non-sniping) guns have spread even on the first shot. The FG42 and the Garande both have identical spread on all shots. And, the pistol has both recoil and spread.
Check for yourself. Either read the sourcecode, or run /devmap and /g_debugbullets.
Oh, and one more thing:
Since the game is not perfectly equal (mirrored bases on both sides), there will always be some imbalance. It can never give both Axis and Allies the same chance of winning a map. But since there has to be imbalance, any changes made should tend to helping the Alllies (offensive team) more. Even if defenders know they’ll lose, they can still have fun by trying to last as long as possible. But if attackers know they’ll lose, it’s no fun for anybody. (Stopwatch mode is based on this)
So consider what will happen if you make stationary people more powerful relative to moving ones. The Axis can be stationary, waiting around in their base all day. The Allies have to move. So making this change will hurt the Allies, and make it easier to camp the objective.
Okay, I only tested it with running around alone in a map while shooting at the walls… but it seems waaaay nicer! Dunno about gameplay, but at least taking a bit of velocity into account definately feels better. This allows you to reduce the effect view angle changes have on the spread, too.
Hrrm, if you think it doesn’t add a luck factor, then why do people strafe dodge ??
Because they move in a way that by the time you leave the button they will be slightly in another place, which makes the fight more luck based than acc based. (i’m talking about sprint dodging btw)
If somebody crouch and the other guy sprint and moves like a chicken, they will both start with the same balanced aim.
No they don’t, i already read must of the code, go read it before commenting me.
The first shot on all the weapons has a zero spread, you can go and test it for your self too.
And please don’t make arrogent comments on things you don’t understand.
Stationary people are more vurnable to mortar, rifle grenades, and normal grenades, and of course panzer too.
Other than that, it seems you didn’t read the other topics in this thread, as you failed miserably in the only thing i asked from people.
You tried to assault this idea rather than explain the good negative points, i know you didn’t really read the posts because i already said i won’t implement this functions.
but facts are facts, you strafe dodge a lot, and your life depends on it, and you felt an instinctive need to defend it.
Now if you used your brain here, you could simply supply some good negative points for my suggestions, of how it could hurt the game and the core of the idea which were 1v1 fights.
You seem to have good understanding, yet you decided not to share any insights but simply assault.
A shame, i come here for insights because this mod and the balance of the game is important to me, i’m always open to negative points, as long as they are properly explained.
I guess it was a wrong decision to discuss the ideas in this forum. :moo:
To make themselves harder to hit- so that players without skill won’t be able to kill them.
To shoot a standing target takes aiming skill and luck. To shoot a moving target takes aiming skill, anticipation skill, ping, and luck.
This is TOO funny. You have NO IDEA what you’re talking about. I’ve tried to help and explain to you the way the game works, and you can’t even understand. You go on accusing ME of not having read the source code, when obviously you haven’t read it either. I could go through one by one and explain how each thing you said was wrong, but instead I’ll just point out a few lines of source code which you can’t possibly argue against.
First, I will prove that rifles have identical spread for every single shot. Line 3879 of g_weapon.c:
So you see what happens is that with the K98 or Garande, the Bullet_Fire is always done with a spead of exactly equal to KAR98_SPREAD or CARBINE_SPREAD (which are both 250). For most other guns, aimSpreadScale is based on a variety of factors like burst, crouch, prone, etc… but for rifles, all that computation is overwritten for maximum spread each time.
Moving on, I’ll prove that “the first shot on all the weapons has a zero spread” is a total lie. (I don’t understand how anyone could think that- even if you didn’t have the source code to read, it’s totally obvious from playing the game). Line 3773 of g_weapon.c
if (g_userAim.integer) {
aimSpreadScale = ent->client->currentAimSpreadScale;
// Ridah, add accuracy factor for AI
aimSpreadScale+= 0.15f; // (SA) just adding a temp /maximum/ accuracy for player (this will be re-visited in greater detail :)
if(aimSpreadScale > 1)
aimSpreadScale = 1.0f; // still cap at 1.0
} else {
aimSpreadScale = 1.0;
}
So what that does is add 0.15 to aimSpreadScale each time the gun is fired, regardless of anything else. Then when Fire_Bullets is called, it will have AT LEAST 0.15 inaccuracy.
I gave you plenty of insight, but you can’t understand it. (I should’ve known from the discombobulated nature of your first post that replying would be a waste…)
You’ve never mentioned one thing about how changing strafe-aiming will make the game more balanced. (I’ve already said how it will unbalance things)
