mine and C4

(EL-CO) #1

I noticed that you can attack to destroy Megan’s mine but cannot attack Suds’ C4, although UI shows white circle around C4 telling that I can fire to it. This is somewhat inconsistent. Previously there were no way to destroy mines except Engineers’ tool. Now you can destroy mines which is good for me (you can deal with mines without engineers with the cost of time). How about C4? Please change it in the similar way with mines or delete white circle around C4.

And I’m still not fully understand how the detection aura works. Sometime my captain fail to detect the mine in a few square away…

I found that Mme’s UAV and Dee’s Riot Shield can be healed by health crate. Is this intentional? Health Crate can heal both UAV and Riot Shield, Medic cannot heal both UAV and Riot Shield, Engineer can fix Riot Shield but not UAV. A bit confusing.

Now many people (including me) using Kate and Juan and I’m afraid that their DoT abilities may be a bit overpowered. 15~25 damage (Kate) and 20~30 damage + 8 or 10 damage /turn (Juan) would be enough for me.

(ChaosPinhead) #2

I would think:
UAV and Riot Shield should only be healed by an Engineer
Health crates should only heal humans
Medics should only heal humans (and people in the vicinity of a healing aura could take half damage from DoT attacks since they are under the care of a healer, to help reduce the over “poweredness” of them)
Mines and C4 should only be dismantled by Engineers in my opinion. Mine’s are hidden from view until detected. I doubt anyone would “shoot” an explosive to diffuse it and if they do, their should be explosion damage as if it was detonated. Just like how a rocket turret can damage your own units when it fires.

Just my thoughts.

It is hard to deal with Kate and Juan. Kate especially because she can walk so dang far and her grenade only costs 3 to toss. toxic grenade and molotov splash range should be reduced. I find a lot of time I can hit people sitting diagonal around corners 3 squares away from the target which makes it almost impossible to keep your units ANYwhere near each other or face total DoT annihilation. What is the range on those things 5x5 square? I don’t mind the damage they do, it’s healable, but the splash range makes them ridiculous imo. I’d cut it in half so that only units in a very tight cluster could all get infected. As for Juan, I think he is ok. His moving is 3 energy making it a short walk and tossing is 6, so he can only move a total of 4 squares+toss making him a lot more balanced. However just like Kate, I would like to see the splash damage radius reduced on Juan also.

(Crozzton) #3

Sorry … :slight_smile:

(Catnadian) #4

If you’ve got a Medic though, Kate’s toxbomb is easily remedied, unlike Juan’s molotov, which hits twice as hard, has a DoT that can’t be healed by a medic, and even slows performance if you or your enemy is unlucky enough to have an entire army in the blast radius. I think Juan’s molotov should be fooled around with long before the toxbomb, which you can do something about.

(EL-CO) #5

So if you don’t have medic in your squad, it’s hard to fight against Kate. Previously, the same thing was true to the Megan’s mine. If you don’t have engineer in your squad, you often have to take ~80 damage to get into the central area even though you know that there is a mine.
I would prefer the game to be “you can take some advantage if you have medic/engineer” rather than “you will have serous disadvantage if you don’t have medic/engineer”. Thus I love the update which makes it possible to shoot mines, and I asked to change so that the health crate can heal Kate’s poison.

(Catnadian) #6

After some consideration (read here as going pure DoT for a game or two) you can easily do 50+ damage a round with pure DoT, with about a quarter of that being removable. I’m just listing Kate’s as the least off the mark here, since at least a Medic would be able to take of toxbomb DoT, which is untrue for Fire (why) and Bees (which is understandable), since I am all for a DoT nerf, and agree that there should at least be some option for disposing of C4 and Mines that doesn’t mean there is an “optimal setup”. However, I don’t necessarily think anything is wrong with the radius (hence the above post), since it seems to just be normal Frag radius except with gas.

(ChaosPinhead) #7

It is normal frag radius, but with other things, grenades for instance, damage is reduced as the radius increases. With fire and acid DoT, the damage is static in a 25 square range. With most maps having the capture area, no bigger than 25-30 squares, and the maps being “relatively” small because you have to capture a central point…having a bomb that does initial 25, second round 25, 3rd round 12 to every character regardless of radius you are looking at 300+ damage in a 26 point map if your units are even remotely close to each other in one toss and with kate being able to traverse 3/4 of a map in 2 turns…its an unavoidable evil. Sure you can cure 1 or 2 of them. depending on how many medics you have, but your medic is now injured too because she had to be close to heal the impending doom you knew was coming. I guess we could debate it all day. I just feel the DoT all around needs balancing because it is just too devastating.

(Hot-Wire) #8

[QUOTE=EL-CO;419932]So if you don’t have medic in your squad, it’s hard to fight against Kate. Previously, the same thing was true to the Megan’s mine. If you don’t have engineer in your squad, you often have to take ~80 damage to get into the central area even though you know that there is a mine.
I would prefer the game to be “you can take some advantage if you have medic/engineer” rather than “you will have serous disadvantage if you don’t have medic/engineer”. Thus I love the update which makes it possible to shoot mines, and I asked to change so that the health crate can heal Kate’s poison.[/QUOTE]

On the flip side the people using kate or megan have to take advantage of them to gain benefits like mines or toxic bombs, so it only makes sense to use a medic to heal the toxic effect or an engineer to remove the mines. Not all setups will be the same and if both sides are using kate and megan… well you have a counter to each other. This is assuming that every loadout will have kate and megan, which will not.

(ChaosPinhead) #9

Yea I played this exact loadout yesterday with Crozz. He had 3 kates, 2 angies, juan (i think) captain and I had 2 kates, angie, gus, juan (i think) and captain. All out “cockler” fight lol. We negated each other’s toxic bombs which basically just extended the game 2-3 rounds while we mass healed all our units dispatching of the poison. But I had to stay in a tight cluster so that was possible. It was like an angry mob. I ended up winning I think mostly because I was very tightly clustered and he had spread out, giving me more of a “damage potential” in each turn to the closest unit where as he had to take steps to get other units closer from farther away positions. Either way a very even match and a good fun match. Playing against anything else though, multi kates/juans is a game ender. Kate’s poison also has some weird “around the corner and through the deployable” abilities though.

(EL-CO) #10

Even though there is engineer/medic in your opponent squad, Megan/Kate can use her ability quite effectively. The fact that you can now destroy mines without engineer doesn’t spoil Megan’s ability. I’m just suggesting to make another way to fight against Kate.

(Hot-Wire) #11

Well the other way kind of makes the first way redundant and not used at all.

(Catnadian) #12

Once a mine is detected, it is for all intents and purposes a brick without cover. At that point it shouldn’t matter how it gets removed, as long as it can be.

So far I’ve seen smart play be an effective counter to one-off toxbombs, but for Kate balance: Instead of tweaking the grenade, how about tweaking the AP cost? At 6 AP Kate would be taking a bigger risk by trying to toxbomb an early cluster, and wouldn’t have nearly as much capability at getting absolutely everyone in a turn-2 cluster.

(Hot-Wire) #13

[QUOTE=Catnadain;420927]Once a mine is detected, it is for all intents and purposes a brick without cover. At that point it shouldn’t matter how it gets removed, as long as it can be.

So far I’ve seen smart play be an effective counter to one-off toxbombs, but for Kate balance: Instead of tweaking the grenade, how about tweaking the AP cost? At 6 AP Kate would be taking a bigger risk by trying to toxbomb an early cluster, and wouldn’t have nearly as much capability at getting absolutely everyone in a turn-2 cluster.[/QUOTE]

And my opinion differs. If a mine is detected it is indeed a brick without cover, but you must have the right tools to remove it. Otherwise with it disclosed you can choose to either go around it or go through it.

(Coup_de_grace) #14

I think health crate should be able to heal both mechanical and units, medics only units and engineers only mechanical. The C4 unable to be target destroy should be fixed to be similar to mines. As for the kate+juan combo, it is a major pain in 14pt games with limited commander abilities and without a medic thats why i prefer 26pt games for you can have a more all rounded setup of firepower and support.

(WillisYu) #15

I would prefer both C4 and mines should not be attacked. In other words, I feel Suds and Megan are weak enough that players rarely use them. Suds has only 1 C4, which makes it not so flexible compared with Fletcher and Grunt. Don’t take me wrong, I like Suds very much as watching enemy step onto the C4 trap is a fun.
Megan’s mine can only be deployed in the adjacent squares so enemy can easily guess out the location and can cause self DMG if enemy toon brings that to you. I love use dying Dave to bring the mine into the middle of enemy toons. :slight_smile:

(Catnadian) #16

You say that until you run into the one crazy bastard who rolls 5 Megans on a 26-point game.

…It’s statements like that that really make me worry about the emergence of clone army strategies.

(Coup_de_grace) #17

Lol kamikaze with enemies bombs! Havn’t seen that one before, must have been a real shock to ur opponent… >.<

(Coup_de_grace) #18

[QUOTE=Catnadain;423701]You say that until you run into the one crazy bastard who rolls 5 Megans on a 26-point game.

…It’s statements like that that really make me worry about the emergence of clone army strategies.[/QUOTE]

Or even multiple UAVs, multiple frags, multiple EMPs, multiple robot shields OMG time to freak out lolololol

(Tarq) #19

[QUOTE=EL-CO;419932]
I would prefer the game to be “you can take some advantage if you have medic/engineer” rather than “you will have serous disadvantage if you don’t have medic/engineer”. Thus I love the update which makes it possible to shoot mines, and I asked to change so that the health crate can heal Kate’s poison.[/QUOTE]

Good thought.

I’ve begun to feel that, in a seriously competitive match, a medic is something of a necessity. But the medics may be a special case, at least so far as Kate and Gus go. The fast, toxic Kate and the 18 energy water-blasting Gus are already strike me as a couple of the best toons. Plus they can heal! Perhaps nerf the Medic-standard healing ability a bit? That might also help Angela to shine.

OTOH, nerfing the standard healing ability a bit could go a long way toward fixing that.

(Bwade) #20

I like the healing ability as it is really. Im 96% sure i wouldnt use angela even if she got better because i dont like to use middleweights. Then again there are people who do so i guess anything goes but she is useless to me because my toon are never together and will never be together.