Mercs should cost less credits and cash

(hotpinkReel) #61

Well, you did a right good job of pointing out every little flaw that concerned me and some larger ones that went over my head.

My thinking with the win requirement was to stretch out the playtime for the Merc, since naturally not all games will be wins, but I realize now that it’d be easier to just do a mission with a time requirement. You’re allotted x amount of game time with the merc. Like you, I had misgivings about this, which was one of the reasons I didn’t post it originally. I feel pretty dumb for over complicating it when a time trial would have been more than sufficient. I admit, I somewhat carelessly threw in the cards as an afterthought, since they seemed better than credits.

I realize the existing mission system succeeds in incentivizing teamwork and offering some more credits. You said it yourself. I’m just trying to think of ways it could be expanded upon. They want to increase credit gain, and I think the mission system is a good place to start. It’s already known that they’ll be taking another look at it, and how they can use it to increase credit gain is no doubt something they’ll be considering, even if they eventually decide against it. So I tried to speak to that.

I figured that by adding variety, it’d feel less grindy. The other idea was that by putting in more options, people would have more opportunities to make credits. As a result, they’d actually be more flexible than they are now, where they only have three missions. If you want those 600 credits, then you have to do it. But I realize now that perhaps the best route to take would be a mission board. Something that would give a variety of missions which you could choose from. That way you could plan your missions to align with the role you expect to fill, and there’s less conflict between your mission and your role/objective as a member of the team. It also affords you the opportunity to mix it up and choose different missions, so it doesn’t feel as grindy.

I think the most important thing you touched on, and something that is the heart of this whole idea, is making the missions productive. The existing mission system is evidence that it can be done. The question then is; to what extent can it be expanded upon? I’m not sure. I’m really just spit balling here. What are your thoughts on expanding it? Not necessary at all? How would you suggest credit gain be increased? Should it be increased? You have more time in the game than I do, and you definitely put forward some thoughts I didn’t consider. I’d like to hear your opinion in greater depth.

(Ardez1) #62

@hotpinkReel @MissMurder

I created a thread here that had one thought for improving the rotation system, but that is more of a shot in the dark then anything I expect SD to use.

As far as the mission system goes:

Remove the following missions:
Win 1 Stopwatch Match
Play 2 Stopwatch Matches
Win 2 Objective Matches
Play 4 Objective Matches
Play 3 Games with X in Your Squad

Only the ‘Win’ missions promote teamwork, but they also increase frustration if you are on a losing streak. The squad member missions also don’t change anything besides probably make you bring a merc you have little to no interest in playing.

Nerf the following mission:
Earn 14,000 Combat EXP -> Earn 7,000 Combat EXP

This needs to be brought down to the same level as Support and Game Mode EXP missions. I personally believe the other two missions are more valuable to the team then the Combat EXP mission, but at the same time I don’t believe it should be removed. This mission actually hurts the game because people will be significantly less focused on the Objective and much more focused on taking advantage of spawn camping and playing the assault classes.

Add the following missions:
Demolition Specialist - Plant C4 on 3 Secondary Objectives
Maintenance - Earn 300 EXP for Repairing Secondary Objectives
Patrol Duty - Earn 500 EXP for Escorting an EV
Fire Power- Earn 500 EXP for Damaging an EV
Goal Line Defense - Assist Killing or Kill an Enemy Carrying an Objective
Relay Runner - Assist the Delivery of or Deliver a Carried Objective(Pick up a Carried Objective that Becomes Delivered)
Butcher - Kill 5 Players While Operating a Turret(EV or Stationary)
Reaper - Finish 10 Downed Players
Everybody’s Enemy - Deal 2,000 Damage with Abilities
Everybody’s Friend - Heal 2,000 Damage with Abilities
Combat Medic - Revive 5 Players While Damaged

I think those are acceptable missions. I just came up with them on the spot, so there may be flaws. Please make suggestions as you see fit. Originally I had Everybody’s Friend be 3,000 damage, but I felt there would be complaints of unfairness. Also, all players have a Medic and a Fire Support unlocked for free, so that won’t be an issue. My biggest concern is Butcher and the two Carried Objective missions either being too vague or very hard to complete for some players.

Next I would like to mention the Credit Earning side of things.

Nerf the missions to 500 credits each, but increase the number of active missions to four. This will allow players to earn 2,000 Credits per day from dailies.

Secondly, remove the EXP bonus for getting medals and turn it into Credit bonuses for medals. Shrink the Credits to lower values, but keep the rewards consistent with the ‘tier’ of the medal. All Bronze should give 10 Credits, all Silver 25 and all Gold 50.

Currently a 15 minute game gives 180 Base Fee and roughly 20-50 in Skill Bonuses. Roughly 210 credits earned per game(IF it goes to 15 minutes). Let’s say you got first blood, a triple kill and 10 Revives. Your payout would be 210+25+10+10, or 255. But the key is you can say for a fact you EARNED that additional 45 Credits.

That is a significant increase and rewards purely based on in-game achievements. The skill bonus is a VERY small portion of your payout at the end and I believe that granting a credit reward would provide a good boost based on how well you performed and deflate some obscene scores at the same time. This would also be a tangible way to measure rewards rather than ‘Skill Bonus’, which I have no clue how to determines you ‘Skill’.

Right now EVERY player gets paid 12 Credits per Minute in game and the ONLY difference between the best and worst player on the team is the ‘Skill Bonus’. That means a majority of your payout is about what the worst and best player got as well. That is very little incentive to play well and more just to be signed into a match. People need to be able to assign a real value to their contributions. It also means the reward for 25 Revives will be the same as 25 Kills and that Ace(Kills) and Doctor(Revives) medals will reward the same.

(R5on11c) #63

What’s gonna be changed in the end is all in the hand of the CEO. There are several types of CEO and i saw one or another ruin a game just because they were consumed by their own opinion and ego. I am not saying that this is the case but it might be so please keep your seatbelts on as long as you haven’t heard the man himself ( or at least someone who is in the position of actually having active influence on that matter).

(amberHarp) #64

I would like more credits over cheaper mercs. This would solve the problem and make cases actually usefull!!

(kittenishBlender) #65

[left][quote=“MissMurder;17574”]@kittenishBlender @DadoPeja This topic and your concerns/desires on it gets passed along to the team in nearly all of my reports. Trust me you’re not unheard and I know that lowering the prices of the Mercs is what you’re asking for. Excuse me if I haven’t been clear in saying that in response the devs are trying to make earning credits easier. This doesn’t mean they are ignoring you. I think we all agree it’s more fun to play the game and get Mercs with credits rather than spending real money. The cost of the Mercs is subject to change but I think they will stay the same for at least a while. The whole system is still new and essentially in test mode.
@R5on11c, there may be different Merc packs in the future. The idea of having all of them available to buy in a package hasn’t been broached yet due to how many Mercs that are not in the game yet and still are a long ways away.[/quote]

Well, I was saying that because you did not mention our desires to lower the prices of the mercs, which is why I was a bit worried about this. I’m glad to see you consider what we are saying (If you are not lying of course :stuck_out_tongue: ).

I know that you are testing your monetization system, but don’t you think that the current prices are a bit exagerated ( answer honestly, as a random player, not as CM of SD) ? Would you pay for those prices ?

This aside, thanks for giving us a frank anwser :slight_smile: ! [/left]

(Szakalot) #66

[quote=“kittenishBlender;17662”][left][quote=“MissMurder;17574”]@kittenishBlender @DadoPeja This topic and your concerns/desires on it gets passed along to the team in nearly all of my reports. Trust me you’re not unheard and I know that lowering the prices of the Mercs is what you’re asking for. Excuse me if I haven’t been clear in saying that in response the devs are trying to make earning credits easier. This doesn’t mean they are ignoring you. I think we all agree it’s more fun to play the game and get Mercs with credits rather than spending real money. The cost of the Mercs is subject to change but I think they will stay the same for at least a while. The whole system is still new and essentially in test mode.
@R5on11c, there may be different Merc packs in the future. The idea of having all of them available to buy in a package hasn’t been broached yet due to how many Mercs that are not in the game yet and still are a long ways away.[/quote]

answer honestly, as a random player, not as CM of SD) ? Would you pay for those prices ?
[/quote]

come on, really? I’d be like a presidential debate: would you raise taxes, please tell us your honest opinion irregardless of how it will affect your chances at election.

(R5on11c) #67

@Szakalot you just figured how things work in closed betas, congratulations. User feedback goes into the game, no doubt. But the majority of decisions are made regardless what the user says, if it goes against their opinion they will persue their own agenda anyway.

(Szakalot) #68

i didnt figure anything out, I’m explaining why its silly to ask CM to ‘give us an honest opinion as if you were just another player’

(R5on11c) #69

You might be surprised but some CMs are more down to earth than you think (no offense, i am currently not counting @MissMurder as one of those). A good example is the former CM of the game Loadout, Jason Heitmann a.k.a. Tryceup. He originated from the Comp FPS scene and he did a great job thinking from the position of the average player.

So even if MissMaccaroni never became any more down-to-earth than you might have liked it or the fact that she always avoids to call out her actual name, she might be just another fellow player who happens to be CM of this game.

(Szakalot) #70

still don’t know what you are getting at.

(_Sniff_) #71

Keep in mind that asking a CM what the opinion of their companies position is a really loaded question. People in public relations positions often have to sign contracts agreeing they won’t say bad things about their company.
Publicly denouncing their companies payment policy could easily breach that contract and get her fired.

(Solid Stache ~NaC) #72

Players need to be rewarded for leveling more. It seems like in the current system players only get cases every… 5 levels? I haven’t been paying attention a whole lot to it, since it seems so unrewarding.

For every 5 levels, it should give a large chunk of credits like the lower levels do. the amount should increase by a bit, so people who dedicate a lot of their time to the higher levels should be rewarded for that ridiculous grind.

(Ardez1) #73

[quote=“Solid Stache ~NaC;17725”]Players need to be rewarded for leveling more. It seems like in the current system players only get cases every… 5 levels? I haven’t been paying attention a whole lot to it, since it seems so unrewarding.

For every 5 levels, it should give a large chunk of credits like the lower levels do. the amount should increase by a bit, so people who dedicate a lot of their time to the higher levels should be rewarded for that ridiculous grind. [/quote]

You get one single case every single time you level up, except the two level up rewards of 12k credits.

Devs have specifically stated that this is completely intentional and that levels only exist to show time playing the game and not to confer any other benefits. During a live stream question session it was asked if any new level rewards would be implemented and the response was essentially that it wasn’t being looked at and wasn’t a big concern, but that anything is possible down the road.

There is a good reason that there is no level reward, the system doesn’t reward for simply being here, however to provide a single case for leveling is a joke. Might as well take the free case per level away. If you are grinding for levels then you are doing it wrong. Better to just grind for the credits so you can buy mercs.

The early level credit rewards are so that new players will be able to purchase at least 1 merc fairly soon, but then need to grind for an additional one.

(Solid Stache ~NaC) #74

[quote=“Ardez;17732”][quote=“Solid Stache ~NaC;17725”]Players need to be rewarded for leveling more. It seems like in the current system players only get cases every… 5 levels? I haven’t been paying attention a whole lot to it, since it seems so unrewarding.

For every 5 levels, it should give a large chunk of credits like the lower levels do. the amount should increase by a bit, so people who dedicate a lot of their time to the higher levels should be rewarded for that ridiculous grind. [/quote]

You get one single case every single time you level up, except the two level up rewards of 12k credits.

Devs have specifically stated that this is completely intentional and that levels only exist to show time playing the game and not to confer any other benefits. During a live stream question session it was asked if any new level rewards would be implemented and the response was essentially that it wasn’t being looked at and wasn’t a big concern, but that anything is possible down the road.

There is a good reason that there is no level reward, the system doesn’t reward for simply being here, however to provide a single case for leveling is a joke. Might as well take the free case per level away. If you are grinding for levels then you are doing it wrong. Better to just grind for the credits so you can buy mercs.

The early level credit rewards are so that new players will be able to purchase at least 1 merc fairly soon, but then need to grind for an additional one.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying, but they have already gone at lengths to prevent “grinding”. there needs to be some sort of rewards for leveling, sure credits may not be the best way to do it, but those numbers next to my name currently mean nothing, since it doesn’t even necessarily help determine at how long you have been playing the game.

A good player could get to level 7 in merely hours, while it could take another person much longer.

giving cosmetic differences would be ideal, however, this system should just be re-visited once the game is finally out.

Sorry for derailing.

(hotpinkReel) #75

@Ardez

I’m fond of your suggestions for mission removal, as well as the missions you devised. They’re well thought out. In general, yours seem to focus more directly on objectives, while the ones I proposed were oriented more to fulfilling team roles. I don’t see why they couldn’t exist together, although I do worry that some of the more objective focused ones could result in team members racing each other to the objective without concern for the safety of another. Experienced players will no doubt expect to get the defuse/plant/whatever over the course of their session, but greener over eager players may not be so savvy, and will leap at whatever opportunity they can get.

Concerning credit gain, I very much like a lot of your suggestions.

Last week, for a few days, my credit gain slowed to a crawl. Trading up was eating up all my gains. Perhaps its because I’m new that this is the case. I’m not sure. In any case, this difficulty was what motivated me to consider expanding the number of missions offered; more opportunity for credits to be made. However, I think your medal changes may resolve this issue, as I do tend to earn a decent amount of them. This is no doubt true for most other players as well.

Something which you didn’t touch on was how the missions were to be assigned. You did touch on an important concept in your first response to me, however; conflict between your mission and what the team needs. As I see it, there are 3 pressures which hold sway over what class you play. Firstly, what you want to play. Secondly, what your team needs you to play. Thirdly, what your mission requires you to play. The closer you can bring those three to harmony, the more smoothly the whole system operates, and the more enjoyable it is for the player. For that reason, I think that missions should be chosen. If you choose a mission to suit your expected role, then that aligns what class you want to play with what your mission requires you to play. The only variable left then is what your team needs you to play, which quite frankly is unpredictable.

I think it would be interesting if missions accepted less often were provided a small bonus of some kind. I suppose this opens up a can of worms with rotating the missions like you would crops, but even so, I would like to see some sort of reward or encouragement for keeping variety or trying things you normally don’t. It builds well rounded players, which makes the game more fun and also improves the overall community perception of game balance. I struggle to think of a better way to encourage this, however. I suppose a sort of “meta” medal system which tracks cross game achievements, rewarding cumulative stats or variety, could do it. However, that’s beyond the purview of the current topic, I think.

I can’t really think of criticisms of your suggestion. Really, I can only think of what I’d like to see added to it, rather than changed.

(Solid Stache ~NaC) #76

since people don’t lurk the SD forums, i’m just going to post this for safe measure. Anti one of the lead designers posted this about missions. I didn’t go through and read mission suggestions to see if this applies, but this is the reason why they went rather light on them.

"Happy to add more Missions but we’ve tried to avoid ones that will make people play in a way that might disrupt the team’s chances of winning. For example a ‘Get 50 Headshots with Sniper Rifles’ Mission is going to result in too many Snipers frag hunting rather than trying to aid their team.

Any suggestions for new Missions that would be productive for a team would be welcomed though :)"

(ZGToRRent) #77

But “Play x matches” is ok when players are not forced to care about win and objectives? It sounds like hypocrisy.

(Szakalot) #78

‘play x matches’ doesn’t actively motivate people to abandon playing to win/for the team. Except I suppose defending on objective, wherein you could try to sabotage your team to end the map quicker.

(currentRoyalty) #79

the merc’s are expensive that’s a fact but guys let’s not forget that this is a really awesome FREE TO PLAY game and that the developers but their effort and time into this, what i’m trying to say is they need something for their hard work, probably to pay for all their expenses

(Amerika) #80

Please don’t necro old posts with out of date information @currentRoyalty