Melee Hit Speed


(DarkangelUK) #21

I’m not for melee weapons having the equivalent damage of a grenade or rocket, is just silly for a supposedly high TTK game


(STARRYSOCK) #22

Like I said, it’s extremely easy to avoid, far easier than a rocket from through a window or a cooked grenade from around the corner. Out of all the one-hit kills in this game, melee is the last one that needs complaining about


(DarkangelUK) #23

In honesty, I don’t care if it’s easy to avoid or not, its also easy get melee hits, it shouldn’t be causing equivalent damage to grenades


(B_Montiel) #24

Being a quite intensive melee user and former chivalry player, this supposed nerf on cricket bat and katana did not change anything. While it might have supposed to let you avoid heavy hits, this also gives you more time to drag your own heavy hit. So this is 50/50 nerf/buff in my view.

The melee is darn too powerful in this game compared to way other things (shotgun left at a weird place to mention one) , a full melee kill should be 1 quick + 1 heavy hit to kill at very least for every single merc.


(HadronZodiac) #25

A - Its an fps lol
B - Yeah but advancing effeciently means u need to have ur melee out the whole time, which allows time for you to just get gunned down

And one shot kills really only apply to 80-90 hp mercs (and 100 for chopper katana heavies)

But even then they should be more mobile than say a rhino, so…


(Kirays) #26

Positioning is an important factor everywhere, melee isn’t the only gameplay aspect that is affected or rewarded greatly by advantageous positioning. Reaching the high ground before your enemy does in a fire fight has a significant impact on wherever or not you get the kill and the same applies to standing behind cover. Once you have grasped the concept of the spawn timer anticipating enemies also becomes quite straightforward.

Well, yes, you don’t want to be running through the main road on Chapel with your melee out if you know there are enemies around.

Let’s have a look at how the HP is divided between the mercs: We have a couple in the low tier, the majority in the mid tier and less than a handful in the very top tier. If we replicate a scenario where you hit an enemy from the mid tier with a heavy melee strike you won’t kill them instantly, but you will leave them with an absolutely detrimental amount of HP that makes it easy to finish them off. I count only three mercs (if I consider Fragger’s HP to be top tier) that can even remotely withstand a right click without being a free kill afterwards.

Exactly. That’s why my conclusion is that melee damage is too high in its current state.


(HadronZodiac) #27

Well yes, however the more powerful the melee like katana the longer delay, making you way less effecient in terms of ttk, and assuming the victim has any common sense and is at least near the team, you will likely be spotted and attacked as u finish up. And I look for downed symbols to overall spot enemies, hopefully people do the same lol


(Your worst knifemare.) #28

The only thing I dislike about as melee is that it can one-shot me as Sparps, which is fair considering her and Aura are the fastest mercs who can easily avoid melee as long as they are aware of it. I’d rather see snipers or Proxys strat nerfed.

A decent sniper can one-shot most mercs from across maps with little way to fight back, at least with melee, the person using melee is usually at a range advantage, and most primaries have a high enough ttk compared to melees.

Proxys strat doesnt even need explaining.


(PariahDog) #29

See everyone is focusing on the 1 shotting ascept of melee but getting hit by two big ass light cleaves is just as low effort and bad.


(Meerkats) #30

This is supposed to be a middling TTK game. I firmly believe ANYTHING that can be spammed and does more than 60 damage off a single hit ( 30 for small arms ) should be carefully reevaluated and probably nerfed. This includes nades, stickies, shotguns, PDP / MoA / FEL-IX bodyshots and yes, hard melee.

The second Guardian came out, I stopped playing Kira entirely cause you know what? Getting one-shot randomly from full, even if not commonly, got old fast. Honestly, unless you need memebeam, I don’t think Kira is viable at all right now, especially with Guardian, a similarly sized, similarly fast merc who has 20 more HP and autos. Even now, even if you don’t get oneshot, getting chunked for 55 out of 80 or 90 total HP from across the map is rough.

The way heavy hitting mercs keep getting added, imo, reduces the viability of light mercs, and as much as I’d like to play them, I simply don’t.

So yes, I absolutely agree hard melee damage should’ve been dropped over having timing fiddled with.

Honestly, I wouldn’t mind all mercs receiving HP bumps ( based on current HP, scaling of course ).


(STARRYSOCK) #31

I meant that positioning is more important to melee than it is to guns, not that it’s non-existent in guns. You can still do well with a gun even if you’re not behind cover or on high ground, because the main skill at play is aim.
On the other hand melee primarily uses positioning. Rushing up to someone, dodging gunfire, if you can’t position yourself properly you’re very unlikely to succeed against a reasonably skilled opponent. Hence, positioning is the primary skill. Realistically melee has aspects of aim in it too, specifically tracking. When you’re very close to an enemy in such a fast game, it’s easy to lose track of an enemy, especially if you’re using a small hitbox weapon like the stilnotto.

Not that it’s really the point anyways, that’s only one small piece of my argument here. Melee is not free from skill. You might get some lucky kills, but that’s no different from a few lucky headshots with a gun. In order to get consistent kills against anyone with moderate skills, you need to know what you’re doing, otherwise it’ll usually end up suicidal. Just as with gunfire, there are plenty of defensive skills you can learn if you just take the time to get used to it. It’s easy to get stabbed and get frustrated, but try getting consistent kills against a decent player, even if you’re skilled with a knife, you likely won’t have much more luck than you would if you had just used your gun.

Ultimately what I’m saying is that it’s not unskilled, and lots of us have built playstyles and practiced heavily around being able to melee or avoid melee, and it’s unfair to try to nerf that just because a few people dislike it or find it unrealistic or whatever. I don’t like sniping but I don’t expect it to be nerfed into uselessness.


(Jigstraw) #32

I’ve been wanting to see an HP modifier setting in community servers that applies to all mercs for months at this point. Specifically a percentage based modifier. I really want to see how the game plays when everyone has +50% HP. Would completely remove one shot kills from melee and nader’s nades, only the 80-90-100hp (currently) mercs would be oneshot by proxy mines, sniper bodyshots would have slightly less impact, gunfights would last longer, i don’t really see any downside to a global HP increase based on a percentage.


(Kirays) #33

When I get to a point where I ask myself why I’m even using my gun if I could just run up to that player instead and smack him with my melee I realize that it’s too strong. It might be limited in range and thus not applicable in every scenario, however with how quick the game plays out due to general movement speed and advanced movement options closing the distance between you and your opponent can happen extremely quickly. It might not be entirely free from skill but I don’t consider it to be particularly difficult to get the hang of it. This type of stuff is frankly ridiculous in my eyes:

Clips

https://streamable.com/h3xdz

https://streamable.com/aetcp

https://streamable.com/agu61

https://streamable.com/ar437

https://streamable.com/9u0gb


(Jigstraw) #34

are you even using a card with chopper or quickslash in those clips? perhaps i should go off collecting chopper phoenix clips to add to the list


(STARRYSOCK) #35

All of those were situations where melee should be used though. I mean, look at link 3 especially, aura runs right up to you without shooting or dodging and you melee. What’s wrong with that? That’s not melee being OP, that’s just you being good and your enemy being bad. Hell, you already damaged that aura anyways so it’s not like melee is a crutch.
Your other examples are all cornering people, dodging their fire, or the enemy didn’t even try to avoid you. Bad players not knowing how to deal with it are hardly reason to nerf it, they just need to get used to it, in the same way you’d get used to strafing to avoid fire. Melee is a lot less common than gunfire, so naturally it’ll take people longer to learn to deal with it

Those players clearly weren’t that skilled either, just look at skyhammer crouching in a corner watching as you rush in. Melee is rarely practical against skilled players, and in this situation, guns would have easily worked too. Being skilled against bad players is hardly a reason to nerf it, DB isn’t supposed to be a game about hand holding


(PariahDog) #36

He’s running BL83, the only Blish/Bat combo Aura has. Her only chopper cards are first gen with knives and he doesn’t get Quick Slash. Does have quickdraw which lets him pull the insane bullshit in Clip 3 where even if the enemy aura made an effort to avoid t was screwed with the 2 shots followed by the massive cleave that the bat and weebstick both have. Tries to back up? Still in cleave range? Tries to go left or right? Still in cleave range. Try to go forward enjoy your bodyblock AND cleave.


(STARRYSOCK) #37

That aura card doesn’t have quickslash, none of her cards do.
Not sure if you’re talking about clip 3 because the enemy aura also had a shotgun, which could have easily dealt with any melee attacker. Or they could have even used melee themselves. Also from the moment kirays entered the aura’s view, they were far enough away that they should have had time to react by backing up and shooting. It’s just a matter of the enemy having very poor spacial awareness and reaction time.


(NK.NewNightmare) #38

Well, that sure didn’t get us anywhere, YET.


(PariahDog) #39

QUICK DRAW not QUICK SLASH

And unless that shotgun was a Remburg, she was fucked. Since the remmy can still 1 hit Aura and Sparks (and from a greater range than before) the others take 2 shots.


(STARRYSOCK) #40

Hardly. Even if her shotgun did 50 damage, a skilled aura still wouldn’t be doomed. If right at the moment kirays entered her line of sight, they could have shot once, backed up and had time for a second shot. Her shotgun isn’t her only weapon either, a shotgun blast and a pistol to finish isn’t hard to do. Or hell, she could have just used melee herself.
But ultimately, maybe kirays just deserved the kill? They ran up to an unsuspecting enemy and shot first. If they kept using their blish, they more than likely would have won that fight with how long the other aura took to react. Like I said, melee wasn’t a crutch in this situation, kirays was just better.