Meet the Medic!


(ImageOmega) #1

Since talk about the medic is all the rage, the purpose of this post will be to consolidate all those ideas and present a future direction for the medic.

Let me begin by saying I love being able to kill and heal. This was always appealing to me throughout any game regardless of genre. However, when you think medic you don’t naturally equate the class to killing machines. Thus, despite the fact I’d love to be able to run around, heal myself, and kill people as easily, we need to bring the medic’s support role to the forefront. That way other classes like soldier, fields ops, and recon can be focused on killing and/or doing damage.

First, What Not to Do

The focus for the medic should be to increase his survivability while highlighting his support mechanics instead of his ability to kill efficiently and effectively. Keeping this focus in mind, we do not need to nerf a medic via reducing his damage amount. A medic should be able to compete with other classes when they engage in an one on one fight. If they are engaging in fights with multiple enemies or chaining one on one fights after another their ability to continually kill should be diminished. The real truth here is that other classes need buffs to give them better killing abilities over medics.

Another Thread for Health Regeneration!

I really do believe that the medic should be the only class with health regeneration or, at least, the only class with two rates of health regeneration. The idea here is to increase the medic’s survivability as a tradeoff for diminishing his attack prowess (which we will discuss later). Also, a medic having an innate ability to regen (or a faster regen) will promote the use of medpacks to heal others instead of themselves.

Medics should start with a low percentage health regen when recently damaged. The low percentage regen should kick in almost immediately after taking damage (maybe 2 seconds after taking damage). After a longer designated time (perhaps 5-7 seconds) of not taking any damage then a secondary, higher health regen rate should kick in. This would allow medics to be able to run for cover and quickly survive hostile encounters or at least push up with their teammates without worrying as much about taking damage when making a run to heal or revive a teammate.

Now, what about the rates for which they should regen health? Maybe the low/high percentage regen rates should be equal to what their medpacks do. Let’s talk about that…

[B]Healing over Time is HoT.

[/B]This is something that has been mentioned before and I have grown to like the idea. The medic, as he currently stands, carries 4 medpacks. A medpack he throws should regenerate health over time (like a health potion in Diablo or Torchlight) instead of being an instant heal.

When a player picks up a medpack he should immediately receive the benefit of being able to regenerate 50% of his health capacity at a rate of 10% of his total health per second. So, if a player has 25/100 health then when he picks up a medpack he will begin to regenerate 10 health every second up to 75/100. This scenario would mean it would take the injured player 5 seconds to regain 50 health.

Now, if a player picks up a second medpack, while the regeneration of the first is still active, then the heal over time effect will be doubled. This would mean the player would be regenerating up to 100% of his health at 20% of his health regenerating per second. Let’s say an injured player has 10/100 health left and he picks up one medpack. Immediately he would start regenerating 10 health per second. Then, a second later, he picks up a second medpack, which activates a two times stacked healing effect healing the player for 20 health per second thus taking four additional seconds to reach 100/100 health.

This effect will be capped at two times and no extra healing bonus or benefits would be gained from picking up a third med pack. Perhaps, the player is even unable to pick up anymore medpacks once the two times healing power effect is reached. The type of healing effect the player is receiving should be noted by a small icon depicting “1x” or “2x” regeneration power.

Finally, I do like Anti’s idea that if a player takes damage while regenerating health from a medpack, then regeneration immediately ceases. Any 1x or 2x bonus goes away and he will have to pick up another medpack to start the process all over again. Also, forgive me if my math is dumb or doesn’t make sense with the numbers I use. The mechanics still stand and I am sure better numbers could be used.

How Much Ammo Could a Woodchuck Shoot if a Woodchuck Could Shoot Ammo?

We already talked why just straight up reducing the damage amount a medic can dish out is silly. So, what do we do instead? I think the amount of bullets the medic gets is the answer to diminishing his killing ability without completely negating his ability.

Right now, the medic gets three clips of 35 bullets or 35 bullets in the gun and 70 bullets in reserve. This just seems like a lot of ammo, especially with the gibbing mechanics the way they are now. Instead I think the medic should get slightly less ammo per clip (like 25 or 30) or one entire less clip to carry. Perhaps, even both of those mechanics together make sense.

The former idea would mean the medic spawns in with 25 or 30 bullets in the gun and 50 or 60 bullets on reserve. The latter idea would mean 35 bullets in the gun and 35 bullets on reserve. Either way the idea here is to reduce the amount of kills a medic can rack up by himself to instead highlight his survivability and support abilities.

Alternative Medic Class: The Combat Medic!
It is apparent that classes are going to have different loadouts with differing abilities (see: “‘Dazzler’ is out! ‘Conker’ is in!”). What about a version of the medic more suited to killing without so much survivability? This would allow players to play the medic as a killing machine that heals himself and maybe with even a little more of a push in this direction.

A Combat Medic would have an increased clip size in comparison to the regular medic (such as the now current 35 plus 70). A possible secondary of the combat medic could be a machine gun pistol like the Recon class has now. That would be a pretty abusive one-two punch combination if you ask me.

So, what’s the tradeoff? Well, the Combat Medic would lose his innate ability to regenerate health on his own. He’d have to use up one of his precious medpacks in order to heal himeslf, which means less for his teammates. And, that’s not all! Also, his medpack’s regeneration rate would be capped at 1x with no stacking of the buff. The original 1x amount was regenerating 50% of health capacity at a rate of 10% health per second. Collecting a second one of the Combat Medic’s medpack would allow for another 50% of the player’s health to be restored, but still only at 10% health per second. Obviously, this all assumes that the medic is the only class with the innate ability to regen (or at least have a faster regen).

Maybe, this is a crazy idea and non-sense you should ignore. This post is already getting way too long and I might be giving some posters a run for their money for over-thinking things! I got more where that came from…

Some After Thoughts: Things that probably don’t fit.

Finally, some random ideas I had that could be cool additions for alternative medic classes. An alternative medic character could have a medpack that increases player sprint speed, amount of damage delivered, or a decrease in amount of damage received. Also, an off the wall idea would be to have different medic classes that revive players with increased health after revival.

If you made it this far…Thanks!

I know that was a long post and I can only hope I explained myself thoroughly. Which is probably part of my problem and why I ended up making DirtyBombers.com. I am a wordy typist. I do that. But, agree or disagree, hate it or love it, I thank you for reading!


(INF3RN0) #2

Sounds to me like you’ve been visiting my mind. As to a combat medic, I was actually thinking about a lot of possible things that could be done with that. I’ll be posting some big “potential class” list later on in the future loadout thread, but I got some other priorities for the moment. The game will eventually support multiple class loadouts, and some unconventional thinking will be required to make that a success.


(Evil-Doer) #3

Awesome read Image. Really interesting ideas and very feasible. I’d like to re-read over it a few times to digest everything properly, but wanted to say great read per usual.


(Kendle) #4

Nice read, and a good idea to try and get this into one thread, because there have been several where these ideas have been mentioned and it’s all getting a bit lost.

My one and only idea to bring to the table is what Maca said in another thread, stop players dropping ammo packs when they die. That’s what gives Medics their combat effectiveness, they can not only give themselves back the health they lost in a firefight, they get back the ammo they used as well from their dead opponent. A firefight that didn’t cost them anything, allowing them to go into the next one fully stocked as if they’d just spawned. No other class can do that.

Make it so no-one drops ammo packs and you immediately change the dynamics. The Medic would need a F/Ops to re-supply him, just like other classes do. The F/Ops immediately becomes a more useful class, and even becomes a more desirable class to play for those who would otherwise go rambo Medic. If you want to rambo out and kill lots of bad guys without relying on a team-mate you’re gonna have to play the class that can replenish it’s own ammo. Although you’re not going to be that effective without your team-mates anyway, cos you’ll need a Medic to heal you from time to time.

If no-one drops anything when they die we would all have no choice but to rely on team-mates to supply us the stuff we can’t give or get for ourselves.

We’d then end up with Medics and F/Ops being equally important in a combat role, and we’d see good ol’ fashioned Medic - F/Ops combos like there were in RTCW, Engies would of course still be just as important to get the objectives done, we’d only then need to look at Soldier and Recon to see if they need a buff or 2 to make them more desirable.


(Apples) #5

How about each player gibbed give ammo but :

  • Only the ammo they had left when they died
  • Only the type of ammo they had (a medic cant pick a sniper’s bullet for exemple)

I dont know, it just seems logical to me, there are different weapons, calibers, etc so the ammo should fit these peculiar weapons and not everyone’s.


(.Chris.) #6

Yeah, that would be nice idea Apples, instead of ammo pack they drop the gun they are using, like ET and if you have same gun you can pick up the remaining ammo from it, I would not allow you to swap weapons like ET though, think it was kendle in other thread who said this pretty much added to the ramboness of medics.

If I remember correctly the ammo drop thing was mainly due to the amount of bullets it takes to gib someone? Perhaps that could be looked at again, then maybe there is no ‘need’ for drops in the first place.


(Kendle) #7

I should explain, I’m in favour of no ammo at all because :-

  • In ET you get ammo for killing enemies (actually, you get their gun, and you have to choose to pick it up, but it’s basically the same thing).

  • ET has rambo Medics.

  • In RTCW you do NOT get ammo for killing enemies (you can’t pick up enemy guns).

  • RTCW does not have rambo Medics.

In other words, it’s not only a simple solution to the problem (much simpler than anything else being suggested) but it’s an already tried and tested solution.

edit: Chris posted at the same time, and yes I think a potential pitfall is DB’s guns are weaker than RTCW’s, meaning more ammo needed to kill and gib someone. My solution to that would be to increase the lethality of the weapons all-round to RTCW levels, but then I don’t expect that to go down well with the ET crowd who prefer the weaker guns. However I’m not sure that’s necessary as the Medic already starts with more ammo than he had in ET or RTCW (I think?)


(maxxxxlol) #8

What Kendle said. Plus I would reduce the amount of ammo they spawn with.


(iwound) #9

if a medic could only get ammo from another dead medic, you could be starting a medic war. sounds good to me.
having guns dropped could be a little hard to see. not as clear as a pack. but the concept would spread the lead around a little.
and just having no packs you could have the same problem as with health as in there wont be enough to go around. thats why there is regen.
i think a mix of the two with further tweaks could balance out the ammo between the classes but still have you occasionally hunting for or fighting over ammo.


(BomBaKlaK) #10

I’m agree with a lot of ideas over here but the main one is no ammo drop


(scre4m.) #11

[QUOTE=Apples;425783]How about each player gibbed give ammo but :

  • Only the ammo they had left when they died
  • Only the type of ammo they had (a medic cant pick a sniper’s bullet for exemple)
    [/QUOTE]

Not a good idea i think.

  • How am I supposed to get ammo as a sniper? kill an enemy sniper and rush over all map uncovered?
  • Think of all the “negative” support. What I mean is: I am Engie and kill an enemy medic with my last few AR ammo. I dont get ammo and am forced to play pistol. Another enemy Medic appears with only Pistol ammo remaining and can picks up that Medic ammo cause I gibbed that first Medic.

So I brought myself into situation I did not want at all. Why? cause I had to kill this Medic to survive. And this Med supplies my enemy now. Seems quite bad to me.


(warbie) #12

[QUOTE=Kendle;425795]I should explain, I’m in favour of no ammo at all because :-

  • In ET you get ammo for killing enemies (actually, you get their gun, and you have to choose to pick it up, but it’s basically the same thing).

  • ET has rambo Medics.

  • In RTCW you do NOT get ammo for killing enemies (you can’t pick up enemy guns).

  • RTCW does not have rambo Medics.

In other words, it’s not only a simple solution to the problem (much simpler than anything else being suggested) but it’s an already tried and tested solution.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. An elegant fix to rambo medics and the field ops being not much use at the moment. Simpler is better.


(Stoffifee) #13

How about some smaller steps towards a solution instead of changing the drop-system generally.

At the moment medics spawn with 105 bullets (3 clips). This is a lot. In ET one began as a medic with only one clip (light weapons lvl1) and then got a second one in addition later on (lvl2).

Why not in such a way: let medics spawn with only one clip. This is really a little, but we test only. ammo-drops remain as well as they are. Indeed, only the actual clip is filled up. And also only if one doesn’t have another clip in reserve.

Alternatively (or even in addition) I propose to limit the medic-clips again to 30 bullets.

Cheers. :slight_smile:


(BomBaKlaK) #14

in etqw no ammo drop and no autoregen at all and it works perfect


(aowblacky) #15

i prefer the ET style. just dont let anyone change weapons and its good. im not a fan of that ammopack…


(Kendle) #16

I hesitate to keep posting in this thread, because my opinion doesn’t carry more weight just because I keep repeating it, but …

This doesn’t address the fundamental problem, the Medic would still be self-sufficient, he would still be the only class that could replenish both health and ammo (albeit perhaps less so), and as such the Medic would still be the most effective combat soldier.

The more I think about it the more I can’t help feeling removing the ammo drop is the only solution to this issue.

The ET style IS changing weapons (the equivalent of getting more ammo), so I’m not sure what you mean ??


(Stoffifee) #17

Sorry, but this is wrong. And ofc these restrictions would make it by far more difficult hence unattractive for rambo-medics.

But, as you might agree, this is not about persuading others but about presenting different views, so i’ll stay out of this.

Cheers :slight_smile:


(tokamak) #18

The focus for the medic should be to increase his survivability while highlighting his support mechanics instead of his ability to kill efficiently and effectively. Keeping this focus in mind, we do not need to nerf a medic via reducing his damage amount. A medic should be able to compete with other classes when they engage in an one on one fight. If they are engaging in fights with multiple enemies or chaining one on one fights after another their ability to continually kill should be diminished. The real truth here is that other classes need buffs to give them better killing abilities over medics.

You’re just asserting this without giving a single good reason why the medic should be able to compete with other classes.

I’m seeing this a lot in WoW forums. People get invested in a particular class and start lobbying on forums to keep them powerful. This is completely detrimental to balancing the game.


(shirosae) #19

If you make the medic unable to compete with other classes, what won’t happen is that the people playing medic right now will suddenly give up ramboing and start dishing out support. What will happen is this: people will stop playing medic and pick the next best class that lets them do what they want to do.

My thinking is this:

You don’t get a player to play in a way that benefits the team by punishing her team if she doesn’t. You don’t get a player to play in a way that benefits the team by moving the way she wants to play to a non-support class.

You get a player to play in a way that you want by rewarding her with something that she wants if she does.

If you want medics to do more support, you need to reward them for it. If people want to play medic and pew pew, reward them with the ability to pew pew as medic if they also perform their support duties. This way, you can actually balance medics so they can compete in a fight with other classes, because they need to spend time not competing with other classes to maintain that ability.

tl;dr: Give medics combat survival buffs in exchange for doing their job. If you do, the rambo playstyle and the support playstyle become the same thing, and you have a class that you can balance in an individual way by tweaking the support, the pew pew, and the reward ratios and mechanisms in a way that’s unique to that class’s abilities.

This probably also applies to other classes like Fops; Give them health regen (or whatever they need to fight) in exchange for handing out ammo and doing EV damage with airstrikes and stuff. Make the actions you want classes to perform be the fuel that allows players to do what they want to do with those classes.


(Kendle) #20

Completely agree, the rambo Meds will go F/Ops instead (and probably not hand out ammo either), but the Medics that are left (and there will be some) will be the ones that want to play that role.

Your suggestion makes sense if we want everyone currently playing Medic to play a support role, but that’s not the intention here. We want the players who want to play a support role choose Medic, and the players who don’t want to play a support role play something else. At the moment what we’ve got is those who want to play a support role AND those who don’t BOTH choosing Medic.