medic weapon ....

(Kl3ppy) #21

@OP:
There are many medics who kill a lot. But I have to agree that the medic weapon is not made for me. I just cant handle it but this is a prob on my side, not on the game side :wink:

I dont care if a medic can heal himself or not, nor do I care about his weapon. To avoid that everyone uses medic as main class, you need to cut the ammo and the ammo supply from dead bodies. If the ammo is low for the medic, the Fops is needed, also to disable the ev fast. Engi is needed anyways to repair ev/build/plant/disarm. In ETQW everyone played medic in 4on4 games. With the supply crate drop the medics had unlimited ammo. But in DB, the medic has 70 (?, 2 magazines) bullets from the beginning and gets 17 bullets from every gibbed enemy. If dp is a 6on6 game, that means there are 6*17=102 Bullets (almost 3 magazines). So cutting the ammo is the trade-off for selfhealing. I woulndt mind if the medic can heal himself and has a lower amount of ammo.

(Kendle) #22

We had a big debate about this before, and I argued that removing the ammo drop completely would be “a good idea” (that’s how it worked in RTCW).

SD changed the ammo drop from full pack to half pack, possibly taking the view that removing it altogether might mean (on public servers at least) a team needing a F/Ops, as opposed to “it’d be nice to have one but not necessary”, might be a step too far. Personally I think they’re underestimating their player base again (like they did with Brink), RTCW worked fine with teams needing a class to hand out ammo, so why not DB?

(warbie) #23

^ blame game designers :slight_smile: Game design is all about hand holding and sign posting everything these days

(Kl3ppy) #24

[QUOTE=Kendle;431270]
SD changed the ammo drop from full pack to half pack, possibly taking the view that removing it altogether might mean (on public servers at least) a team needing a F/Ops, as opposed to “it’d be nice to have one but not necessary”, might be a step too far. Personally I think they’re underestimating their player base again (like they did with Brink), RTCW worked fine with teams needing a class to hand out ammo, so why not DB?[/QUOTE]

+1

chars

(Ruben0s) #25

[QUOTE=Kendle;431270]
SD changed the ammo drop from full pack to half pack, possibly taking the view that removing it altogether might mean (on public servers at least) a team needing a F/Ops, as opposed to “it’d be nice to have one but not necessary”, might be a step too far. Personally I think they’re underestimating their player base again (like they did with Brink), RTCW worked fine with teams needing a class to hand out ammo, so why not DB?[/QUOTE]

What’s the problem with the ammo drop? In W:ET ( and rtcw?) you could pick up weapons from dead players and you would have most of the time way more ammo, than what you get right now with the ammo drop. If you remove the ammo drop, I don’t see any reason to gib someone in DB.

So I don’t understand the sentence “underestimates the playerbase again”, as the way it’s in DB is pretty much the same as in W:ET. I would even say that it’s harder.

(Kendle) #26

^ In ET you can pick up the enemy’s weapon, in RTCW you can only pick up your own team-mate’s dropped weapons, not the guy you just killed. It’s this more than anything that makes the Medic self-sufficient and led, IMHO, to the rambo Medic phenomenon. In RTCW there were no rambo Medics, because they were much more reliant on their team-mates.

I feel games today try to make things too easy for us, and maybe that’s SD’s thinking behind first of all adding it (effectively) to ET and now including it in DB. I say give us a bit more credit. If it works out we need to work together as a team to achieve anything, that’s what we’ll do, we don’t need the game to make it easy for us.

edit: the reason for gibbing people should be to stop them being revived and returning to the fight or completing the objective, at least that was the reason in RTCW, it was ET that made it about nicking their ammo.

(maxxxxlol) #27

Make it so there’s no ammo drop on kills, and med only starts with 1-2 clips. Keep health regen in, and I would never play med.

(Kendle) #28

So remove health regen? That would be good also, everyone being able to replenish their own health (by running away and waiting for a while) and thereby not needing a Medic is as bad as everyone being able to replenish their own ammo (by killing the other guy) and not needing a F/Ops. It doesn’t make sense to deploy a class that provides team-mates with “X” if they can get “X” from another source.

Again, I suspect the reason it’s this way is because SD have decided we’re all knobs who won’t work together as a team if we can avoid it, and they’ve made it as easy as possible for all of us to survive and compete on our own. I think that’s doing the players a dis-service. Stop treating us like idiots and maybe we’ll stop playing like idiots.

(maxxxxlol) #29

good point. Health regen I would probably be fine wither way.

I’m just not keen on people turning the med into the one from tf2.

(HellToupee) #30

No even in leveled up in ET pub games did u spawn with as much ammo as medic you do in DB, rtcw worked because you needed LTs they weren’t just nice to have.

Regen to half as it was was fine, atleast you wouldn’t have to TK revive and such which was annoying on pubs when you get kicked by misunderstanding players for being helpful :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #31

Yes that.

That way you got two distinct specialisations.

The Lifeline
This medic has a weaker than average weapon BUT the ability to heal himself whenever he wants. This means that the medics main strength is to be the last man standing in very tough situations so that he’s able to get the downed team-mates up and running again. A secondary strength is that this guy is capable of doing sneak missions with another class. Like working with a covert to sabotage and get forward spawns or with an engineer to ‘steal’ a main objective well behind the frontlines.

The Backbone
This guy is equal in power to classes like the fops and engineer. He can lend enough combat power. However he cannot self-heal but instead heals himself through revives and dealing out medpacks. This means he as well as his team thrive by sticking together. This guy has an equal chance of dying to any other class and he depends on keeping his team constantly up rather than shining in the most dire situations.

Voila, two deeply distinct medic roles and both completely incapable of being a one-man army. Because, in the end that’s what we want to fix without taking away parts that people like.

Now all we need to do is find similar archetypes for the rest of the classes and deepen them further.

(Breo) #32

This trick you mean? :wink:

(BomBaKlaK) #33

héhé ! This trick is really not fun imo. Medpacks are now more broken than ever but yeah need to test it to know
I realy think more madpacks with lessa mount of life, you can give some medpacks to everyone and slower the self heal cause you need to drop a lot of medpacks (more medpacks = more time to self healing)

instead of taking only 2 to be full life, on 140HP I think 20HP for a pack is enough I think this is close to this in ET and medics need maybe few seconds more to heal themself,
more medpacks to drop = more medpacks on the battlefield = happy team even if it’s only 20HP

6 medpacks of 20 HP each gonna be perfect maybe 25 if needed to up a bit. best way imo

(tokamak) #34

Again I can only really say after playing but that deduction seems about right Bombaklak.

(INF3RN0) #35

I feel like atm every class can kill every class, however the main differences come into play at specific ranges of combat as well as multi-kill proficiency.

(INF3RN0) #36

[QUOTE=tokamak;431356]Yes that.

That way you got two distinct specialisations.

The Lifeline
This medic has a weaker than average weapon BUT the ability to heal himself whenever he wants. This means that the medics main strength is to be the last man standing in very tough situations so that he’s able to get the downed team-mates up and running again. A secondary strength is that this guy is capable of doing sneak missions with another class. Like working with a covert to sabotage and get forward spawns or with an engineer to ‘steal’ a main objective well behind the frontlines.

The Backbone
This guy is equal in power to classes like the fops and engineer. He can lend enough combat power. However he cannot self-heal but instead heals himself through revives and dealing out medpacks. This means he as well as his team thrive by sticking together. This guy has an equal chance of dying to any other class and he depends on keeping his team constantly up rather than shining in the most dire situations.

Voila, two deeply distinct medic roles and both completely incapable of being a one-man army. Because, in the end that’s what we want to fix without taking away parts that people like.

Now all we need to do is find similar archetypes for the rest of the classes and deepen them further.[/QUOTE]

I’m with you here. The only thing that I would reenforce on the “backbone aka combat medic” is to ensure that combat medics don’t gain regen from packs, but only revives; the ladder would apply to interaction with every other class though. This way it would be less desirable to stack a bunch of combat medics and swap packs, but a mix of combat and support medics could be viable. Also keeping the dependency on a FOPS for spawning ammo count but having a higher ammo capacity than the rambo medic would be in order. It would be something that would need some thorough testing, but it would greatly fill the role of the frag hungry medic who also wants to be able to revive/heal their team.

(BomBaKlaK) #37

instead of taking only 2 to be full life,
on 140HP I think 20HP for a pack is enough I think this is close to this in ET and medics need maybe few seconds more to heal them self,
more medpacks to drop = more medpacks on the battlefield = happy team even if it’s only 20HP

6 medpacks of 20 HP each gonna be perfect maybe 25 if needed to up a bit. best way imo

Please do something !! save the medic !!!

(tokamak) #38

That´s a perverse incentive as it would be more beneficial to you to let your team-mates die than to heal them back up. I don’t really see any issue with letting them heal from both actions.

(INF3RN0) #39

I was referring to regen from packs they try to pick up. IE Combat medic 1 gives Combat medic 2 a pack. That shouldn’t work.

(tokamak) #40

Perhaps diminishing returns on the self heal from healing the same player over time will be a more elegant solution then.

That prevents it from turning into a medic circlejerk while benign uses remain valid and medics will keep treating other medics like any other team-mate.