medic "plus" sign.

(SockDog) #21

[quote=Slade05;227764]I doubt people in war zones really have time or willingness to play violent games, through which they could somehow get wrong impression of red cross. I bet they could get it all in real life, teeheehee.

And this “debases the currency” analogy is simply brilliant.
Speaks volumes of them all.[/quote]

Because people in war zones never have lives before war breaks out?

Lets put it this way. If your wife/sister/mother was well know in your city and their image was then used for a hooker in GTA do you think they would object? Do you think some people would look upon them based on that impression only and so alter their actions?

If then every hooker in every game over the next ten years used their image would this make it better?

I’m not trying to be personal here but when you look at it on a smaller level you can see, IMO, where there is a blurring of the line. I guess I could have gone with Actors being stereotyped but it would have been less shocking. :slight_smile:

And really, you don’t think people walk away with knowledge of WWII from CoD games? Video games are far more accessible than history books or ethics courses.

(Slade05) #22

Ahem. I`m a long-time imageboards denizen. “Your mother” jokes stopped being shocking long ago.
:slight_smile:

On matter of hooker images and cross signs, I agree with H0RSE here - it`s not like they are being depicted doing human trafficking or selling organs. Not yet. But time will come…

And you have to factor in movies. In terms of accessibility they greatly surpass games since games require you to do something, which, in shooters at least, is somewhat distracting from the history/propaganda mix they try to feed you. Awful “motivation” scenes like civillian massacre in last CoD are simply countereffective.
In movies you just consume, and they can always suppress any objections your brain puts up with MORE BAYSPLOSIONS.

(shirosae) #23

So everyone moves to using a green cross then? That was easy, lols.

[QUOTE=SockDog;227769]Well I think it’s two fold.

  1. They just have to protect their trademark. I believe if they can be shown to have knowledge of it’s improper use and not act upon it then they forfeit the right to object later.[/quote]

I get the legal part. It’s a copyright, and you can legally ask people to not use your copyright, and using copyright without permission is illegal etc. Fair enough.

It’s this dilution of meaning stuff that I don’t understand. In what way can proximity to swearing and cartoon violence cheapen the red cross symbol in such a way that it has any influence on its real life impact? I mean, given that the impact of the red cross manages to survive real life violence and swearing.

I could perhaps understand if there was a game which used the red cross explicitly as some sort of cover for black ops or something similarly Clancy-stupid, because you don’t want to give the crazies any ideas. That hasn’t actually happened though, has it? (Note, this is a genuine question.)

Or is this like the whole proximity thing - you can’t make a joke in which Jesus is a bystander, because the primitive monkey brains of most people can’t separate the two and infer that the joke is aimed at Jesus?

[QUOTE=SockDog;227769]Yes, I’m probably coming across all Daily Mail moral outrage. Merely trying to see the logic behind this too. :slight_smile:

Ultimately if SD used a… designer label without permission on their clothes we wouldn’t even question them being told to remove it. Likewise they don’t use real weapon names as they aren’t licensed and I doubt the weapon makers would allow them artistic license to tweak power, firing rate and looks however they saw fit.[/QUOTE]

If it was just a legal challenge over the use of copyright I’d not bat an eyelid.

If, however, GAP or whoever told all game developers not to use their threads in their games because games are against the deeper meaning of GAP and that it would reduce the effectiveness of GAP in real life, my response would also be ‘wtf’.

I can’t help but think that all these people have massively overestimated the importance of games. Maybe he’s just someone who’s never seen any games up close and assumes they’re about the glorification of war? I suppose it’d be easy to get that impression from the endless generic warefare pap that’s been around for a few years.

(SockDog) #24

[quote=Slade05;227778]Ahem. I`m a long-time imageboards denizen. “Your mother” jokes stopped being shocking long ago.
^_^[/quote]

It was more an explanation to lighten the personal tone than a warning for the safety of your tear ducts. :slight_smile:

On matter of hooker images and cross signs, I agree with H0RSE here - it`s not like they are being depicted doing human trafficking or selling organs. Not yet. But time will come…

And you have to factor in movies. In terms of accessibility

No but they’re still set in an environment out of control of the trademark owner. It’s not really up to anyone but the trademark owner to decide what they consider may affect their brand. They’re not being consulted or give any creative rights over something they own and ultimately are responsible for. This was my point of the “mother” analogy, without her consent even her inclusion into GTA as a pedestrian may damage her image.

I doubt movies would get away with Rambo blowing people away while delivering red cross care packages.

(SockDog) #25

Yup and I was going to say that L4D uses a black cross on white for it’s medkits but having just checked they actually use a red cross!

It’s this dilution of meaning stuff that I don’t understand. In what way can proximity to swearing and cartoon violence cheapen the red cross symbol in such a way that it has any influence on its real life impact? I mean, given that the impact of the red cross manages to survive real life violence and swearing.

In their opinion it does cheapen the brand. IMO I can see that over time the symbol would gain alternate meaning outside of the actual organisation. Is it a big issue? Of course not. I think we’re only talking about this because they went beyond giving a legal answer and offered their opinion which of course is internet fuel. :slight_smile:

That hasn’t actually happened though, has it? (Note, this is a genuine question.)

Not to my knowledge. Again, I think it’s more that they have no control over how it is use. If a developer approached them and said can we use the red cross, it’ll be done like this and you can say no to whatever you want I’d expect they’d cooperate.

Or is this like the whole proximity thing - you can’t make a joke in which Jesus is a bystander, because the primitive monkey brains of most people can’t separate the two and infer that the joke is aimed at Jesus?

People are idiots, Fox News, Daily Mail etc show it’s not a tiny minority afflicted. People actually think Palin is a good thing for the USA. :confused:

If, however, GAP or whoever told all game developers not to use their threads in their games because games are against the deeper meaning of GAP and that it would reduce the effectiveness of GAP in real life, my response would also be ‘wtf’.

But it might. They as a company may see it as negative publicity that would affect a different market. Maybe they’d think good clean Christian mummies won’t buy Baby GAP because of those nasty nasty video games it’s in. What does GAP then do, spend money saying video games aren’t bad?

Again, I can only bring it back to a personal level and wonder how I’d feel if it was my image/likeness someone was using. It may affect me in unknown ways, maybe positive, maybe negative. Either way I’m the one left with living with the results through no choice of my own.

I can’t help but think that all these people have massively overestimated the importance of games. Maybe he’s just someone who’s never seen any games up close and assumes they’re about the glorification of war? I suppose it’d be easy to get that impression from the endless generic warefare pap that’s been around for a few years.

True but then this brings it back to people needing to bring him into the loop or just use a different logo. :slight_smile:

(Voxie) #26

I’ve read that the primary reason the Red Cross Movement doesn’t want their symbol to be featured in games apart from it being copyright theft is because their medics never use firearms or other weapons, and they are concerned that the public will get the idea of Red Cross field medics in fact do run around touting their MP5’s and USP’s (for example, in HL2 the medics in the Rebel forces have Red Cross white bands wrapped around their arms yet also fire submachine guns)

(LyndonL) #27

I’m sure it’s a likely outcome that people will think that Red Cross (an organisation devoted to saving people) is all about shooting people in the face. 'Tards…

(tokamak) #28

I think the organisation thought it was all fine until they saw the rambo medics in ET.

(MoP) #29

Rambo Medics = Médecins Sans Frontières!

(Szakalot) #30

I don’t think anyone is willing to oblige to your provocation.

I find copyrights to simple designs ridiculous.
Where is the boundary?
One day someone will patent the circle…

(tokamak) #31

Japan would be ****ed.

(signofzeta) #32

flags don’t count, but isn’t there a green flag with a red circle?

(Nail) #33

Put a Coca-Cola sign in your game without express written comsent and see how long it takes them to shut you down, same thing

(tokamak) #34

Then again, the other way around it’s not a big deal either. Games can easily do without the red cross.

(signofzeta) #35

unless it is an IGA such as Quake Wars or 2142.

lol, we can’t use the red cross for the medic, so instead, we use IGA so that in some situations, there will be a red cross, and in other situations, the shoulder patch, or backpack would say intel.

(tokamak) #36

A bit rough, needs some work.

TD.png800x774

(signofzeta) #37

[quote=tokamak;228029]A bit rough, needs some work.

TD.png800x774
[/quote]

kind of stretched vertically.

(tokamak) #38

They keep pushing it!

(Exedore) #39

Correct that the Red Cross is a trademark, and that’s why it’s never in games (including Brink).

(Dormamu) #40

Then… use the Templar cross as a medic sign, you can even rename your medic class as “Templar” :smiley: … problem solved :stuck_out_tongue: … more RPG stuff ftw :smiley: