Maybe the weapons are not supposed to be equally good?

(fetchingSeahorse) #1

A lot of players are complaining about the eng-9 and other weapons being UP, but maybe some weapons are supposed to be a little weaker to balance out better augment combos on cards? If all the weapons work out to be exactly equally viable, then wouldn’t everyone just use the same card or two with the best augment combo? What does the forum and devs think of this?

(umberInlet) #2

With the exception of a few cards (like the CR73 Companion Operative), you are pretty much dead on about what you’ve said I think. Whether it’s been confirmed or not by the devs, idk. I actually enjoy this system, since you won’t see people running around with meta loadouts or anything like that, cause there certainly will be if players get the chance to choose what they want on their cards.

(omegaskorpion) #3

This system realy does not make any sense if it is the case, since weapons like Crozni has better stats than SMG-9 BUT also has one of best loadout cards like CR73. Kinda breaks that formula. I could give more exaples of weapons with better augments (some of them of cource are about preference, but most of them are overall better)

Also, what is the point of your augmets if your gun cant keep you alive long enough to make a difference?

I ratherly see balanced weapons and loadouts than good augments with bad guns.

(cornJester) #4

[quote=“omegaskorpion;32687”]This system realy does not make any sense if it is the case, since weapons like Crozni has better stats than SMG-9 BUT also has one of best loadout cards like CR73. Kinda breaks that formula. I could give more exaples of weapons with better augments (some of them of cource are about preference, but most of them are overall better)

Also, what is the point of your augmets if your gun cant keep you alive long enough to make a difference?

I ratherly see balanced weapons and loadouts than good augments with bad guns.[/quote]

As much as I agree with this post, if your gun can’t keep you alive long enough to make a difference then it’s not the gun. They aren’t so imbalanced that you cannot do well with them, you can just do better with others.

(CCP115) #5

I do not think augments should really be taken into account. Firstly, if they actually did something noticeable, the game would become pay2win. I think. I can’t remember how the store works.

Secondly, I am level 8. I have not spent a single cent on this game. I have ONE BRONZE CARD. My friend unboxed a Cobalt on his second case, and my other friend got a Gold and a Silver in his first two cases. My point being, I only have Leads and Irons, ie incomplete augment sets.
Unless you rely on RNG or your own $$$ you can’t reliably get good augments. This is why they are more or less useless if we’re talking about balance. Not only that, but some of them are pretty poop. Extra clip on Vassili? Let’s take a step back here guys.

(fetchingSeahorse) #6

You can buy bronze cards for 17.5 k credits from the store. I haven’t spent any cash outside from the starter pack and I have all but 2 mercs unlocked with at least one good bronze or better card for each of the mercs I regularly use… I can see not wanting the game to feel like a pay to win, but you can get 17.5k credits pretty easily.

It actually works better to buy with credits if you want a particular loadout as the trade up odds are not in your favor. I almost always save 67.5k for a new merc.

(omegaskorpion) #7

i have bunch of bronce and silver cards and 3 gold cards. And i have crafted them all.
The thing is, every time i get card with SMG-9 in it, its instantly trash card, since other weapons are better than it is, does not matter how good its augments are, i instantly use it when i can to create better rarity card. AND FU## ME SINCE IT IS ALSO A SMG-9 CARD BUT SILVER. AND AFTER THAT ITS GOLD WITH SMG-9 FUUUUUUUUUUUUU…

but anyways, i think all weapons should be balanced, just like the augments.

(CCP115) #8

[quote=“fetchingSeahorse;32811”]You can buy bronze cards for 17.5 k credits from the store. I haven’t spent any cash outside from the starter pack and I have all but 2 mercs unlocked with at least one good bronze or better card for each of the mercs I regularly use… I can see not wanting the game to feel like a pay to win, but you can get 17.5k credits pretty easily.

It actually works better to buy with credits if you want a particular loadout as the trade up odds are not in your favor. I almost always save 67.5k for a new merc.[/quote]

But the biggest problem here is how long it takes to save up to 67.5k credits. I can’t afford to play for an hour everyday, and grinding takes a ridiculous amount of time. I kinda want them to make all weekends x2 or x1.5 credits.

And even if they didn’t add in a credit multiplier, It still takes me a month to grind up for a merc if I am lucky. I kinda want Fletcher next, but Sparks is also appealing.

(Szakalot) #9

[quote=“extravagentBypass;33252”][quote=“fetchingSeahorse;32811”]You can buy bronze cards for 17.5 k credits from the store. I haven’t spent any cash outside from the starter pack and I have all but 2 mercs unlocked with at least one good bronze or better card for each of the mercs I regularly use… I can see not wanting the game to feel like a pay to win, but you can get 17.5k credits pretty easily.

It actually works better to buy with credits if you want a particular loadout as the trade up odds are not in your favor. I almost always save 67.5k for a new merc.[/quote]

But the biggest problem here is how long it takes to save up to 67.5k credits. I can’t afford to play for an hour everyday, and grinding takes a ridiculous amount of time. I kinda want them to make all weekends x2 or x1.5 credits.

And even if they didn’t add in a credit multiplier, It still takes me a month to grind up for a merc if I am lucky. I kinda want Fletcher next, but Sparks is also appealing.[/quote]

well then if you can’t play for an hour everyday, show us some $$$$ ; )

(watsyurdeal) #10

What he said, hell I can manage that, and I have a full time job and other shit to do.

As for the weapons, I think what really would help is having certain weapons having a certain feel or playstyle to them.

The Crotizini for example is definetely a short bursts type of SMG, while the Hochfir is an almost pinpoint accurate bullethose. If you can track well that thing is a MONSTER.

(CCP115) #11

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;33357”]What he said, hell I can manage that, and I have a full time job and other shit to do.

As for the weapons, I think what really would help is having certain weapons having a certain feel or playstyle to them.

The Crotizini for example is definetely a short bursts type of SMG, while the Hochfir is an almost pinpoint accurate bullethose. If you can track well that thing is a MONSTER.[/quote]

You clearly have no clue of the situation I am in, I won’t bother explaining it, all you need to know is many people like me can’t put and hour a day into gaming, let alone Dirty Bomb.

and Hochfir is incredibly good, the only range at which I found it to suck was at point blank, where guns out DPSed it.

(Gi.Am) #12

We do understand you, but that is the F2P model, you can play for free, but you have to play alot (ensures a large, long lasting playerbase) to get all content (if at all). If you can’t or don’t want to you can pay real money to circumvent the grind.

The grind is pretty mild in comparsion to other F2P titels and playing only 1 hour per week wont get you much in those either.

(CCP115) #13

[quote=“Gi.Am;33798”]We do understand you, but that is the F2P model, you can play for free, but you have to play alot (ensures a large, long lasting playerbase) to get all content (if at all). If you can’t or don’t want to you can pay real money to circumvent the grind.

The grind is pretty mild in comparsion to other F2P titels and playing only 1 hour per week wont get you much in those either.[/quote]

I don’t know what titles you have come from, but this game has at least double the grind of other games I have played before.

Not only that, but Team Fortress 2 has little to no grinding, and was (still is?) Valve’s cash cow, along with DOTA 2.
League did have grinding, and so did Blacklight (almost as bad as DB) but it was so much more bearable. It’s hard to explain, but putting four hours a week into League was so much more rewarding. In Dirty Bomb, I am constantly watching the Daily missions, and just hoping for credits.

If they implemented a weekly mission of some sort, I would be pretty happy, and kudos to the developers so far for 2 hour refreshes, thanks for that, they seem to understand not all of their playerbase can play everyday.

I think the biggest reason I want more credits: I wasted my level 1-3 credit bonuses on Arty, who is not the best merc right now.

(Gi.Am) #14

Similar games actually. Tho throw in games like AVA and Ghost Recon online for games with far worse F2P models. A few things tho.
Never ever bring Valve games into F2P discussions. For starters TF2 was a pay to play title before it went F2P. It had already made up its costs and the rest is free takeaway for Valve.
And in general Valve is a unique company who nowadays happens to control a very large part of the distribution of all PC games, everytime someone buys something off of steam they get a nice large cut, they also have steamworks, which means most of the cosmetic content that gets sold for their games, didn’t cost them anything to make and they take a nice cut from that aswell.

At this point they can release a game as F2P and file it under marketing costs to further bind people to steam.

Other titles like Lol, Blacklight, DB, ava… need to make money, to pay off the developing and running costs. Because of that they will always try a bit harder, to get you to, pay up.

I agree that DB feels a bit more grindy compared to lets say blacklight and Lol but it isn’t really. The difference is Blacklight gives you alot of small incremental stuff to work towards but to end up with something resembling a loadoutcard would take similar time (all weapon parts, skin, armor, nodes). In DB you have to grind for the full package before you get anything, in BL you can get new bling every couple days (even tho they might be useless till you get the other parts).

The problem with Lol compared to DB is a bit weirder. I think it comes down to different perceptions. People are used to get all classes from the start, in a FPS so they are a bit pissed at the DB model. On the other hand noone in LoL expects to get all champions from the start. Instead you buy one and than are busy for weeks just to learn the in and outs of that champ and playing around with the ones in free rotation.
By the time you get bored want to try something different you will usually have enough credits to check one of the older cheap champions out. But grinding for a new Champ (the equivalent to buying a 50k Merc) takes quite long. Not to forget the grind for runes that are needed at a certain level to compete.

(omegaskorpion) #15

[quote=“Gi.Am;33907”]Similar games actually. Tho throw in games like AVA and Ghost Recon online for games with far worse F2P models. A few things tho.
Never ever bring Valve games into F2P discussions. For starters TF2 was a pay to play title before it went F2P. It had already made up its costs and the rest is free takeaway for Valve.
And in general Valve is a unique company who nowadays happens to control a very large part of the distribution of all PC games, everytime someone buys something off of steam they get a nice large cut, they also have steamworks, which means most of the cosmetic content that gets sold for their games, didn’t cost them anything to make and they take a nice cut from that aswell.

At this point they can release a game as F2P and file it under marketing costs to further bind people to steam.

Other titles like Lol, Blacklight, DB, ava… need to make money, to pay off the developing and running costs. Because of that they will always try a bit harder, to get you to, pay up.

I agree that DB feels a bit more grindy compared to lets say blacklight and Lol but it isn’t really. The difference is Blacklight gives you alot of small incremental stuff to work towards but to end up with something resembling a loadoutcard would take similar time (all weapon parts, skin, armor, nodes). In DB you have to grind for the full package before you get anything, in BL you can get new bling every couple days (even tho they might be useless till you get the other parts).

The problem with Lol compared to DB is a bit weirder. I think it comes down to different perceptions. People are used to get all classes from the start, in a FPS so they are a bit pissed at the DB model. On the other hand noone in LoL expects to get all champions from the start. Instead you buy one and than are busy for weeks just to learn the in and outs of that champ and playing around with the ones in free rotation.
By the time you get bored want to try something different you will usually have enough credits to check one of the older cheap champions out. But grinding for a new Champ (the equivalent to buying a 50k Merc) takes quite long. Not to forget the grind for runes that are needed at a certain level to compete.[/quote]

I remember the time when the Super Monday Night Combat was a hit (before its death)

Just like DB it had character rotation and they all cost ingame and real money (just like DB again)
And back then i dint remember much complaining about characters that you had to grind to get.

WELL times change…

(CCP115) #16

Another big reason as to why it feels like a grind is balance issues in the game currently. A lot of new players complain about airstrikes, and as such may feel like it’s compulsory to buy another merc as opposed to Skyhammer. And if someone were to buy Arty, and then realise how weak he is at the moment, they would probably be annoyed that they would now have to grind up 50k credits for someone else.

I got about 10k credits in 6 hours, so the grind isn’t unbearable, but it does suck up a bit if time. It will take me 4 more weeks before I can buy Fletcher, can’t wait.

(briefPecan) #17

Might actually be the case. To balance the total potential of any given merc. Thats why good gun combos come with dreaded cool augs :smiley:

Couple examples from pistols

DE .50 VS Caulden - Same stats except Caulden has 1 less dmg.

M9 VS Selbstadt .40 - Same stats except Selb has 3 less rounds in mag. (and i really frown the loss of silencer on this gun.)

(CCP115) #18

Also, along with some Augments being truly potato, it doesn’t feel like a good excuse to balance out cards, as augs only do a little anyway.

My favourite Augments:
-Decreased cooldown
-More ammo packs

That extra ammo pack isn’t really much, but I do acknowledge that cooldown is quite nice. Still doesn’t feel right to make weapons slightly weaker, because in a straight 1v1 firefight, how would an extra ammo pack help?