Mapping competition 2003/4

(Drakir) #61

I know i told u i wouldnt do a map with the current rules since i dont belive that a timelimit of 15 is long enough in ET. I am very happy with the current timelimits of the maps.

And yes, i have played clanwars. So i know what u mean, but why cant the clans just face the fact that ET is another game than RTCW?

RTCW maps where alot smaller and didnt have all the new stuff in it to make the map more enjoyable over a greater timeperiod. The Tanks and constructable stuff and not to forget the mines consumes a great deal of time during gameplay.

1 fact is that the less players the faster the map is played. Dont understand the whining over 30 mins timelimits. Look at any other huge sport, like Soccer, they play on the same field for 90 minutes. Hockey is played 60 mins on the same field, i could go on forever.

Back in the days when i played TFC, the rules where simple. We played 1 map for 30 mins and then another for 30 mins. I think the problem is that the leagues pushes the timelimits!

A simple league rule, 1 team challenges, the other team chooses playground. Play the map twice and see who is the best! Cant be more simple. I dunno if its because of CS that players wanna play 20 different rounds.

/me confused about the timelimit whining!

(pack) #62

From the moment there is some difference in skill between two teams, it can be rather boring to defend or attack for 30 minutes…

There is an option to play a long map only once, but than you get the problem of who is allowed to attack first, to set the time. (pw.de cup solves this with a knifing fight).

As stated before, most official ET maps are 15-20minute-ish. They just happen to have a timelimit of 30 minutes. If public servers want to have more players on a map, they can always increase timelimit (?).

RTCW maps are more 8-12 minute-ish, with the exception of base that has a timelimit of 15 minutes.

But let’s just postpone this discussion untill we hear more from SD :slight_smile:

(Dragon) #63

Looking at it from a Clan perspective, maps which last from 8-15 minutes are definately the most fun.

This is why, imho, Radar is the BEST competition map in ET. Multiple entry points to the objective, multiple spawn points for both teams, and not too large. All the new classes/weapons can be used on the map, and in stopwatch mode, fast times can be set. No-one likes attacking a solid defence for 20 minutes.

If we look at the Competition flaws with the existing maps, surely we can make maps that avoid these issues? (How good would Fueldump be if the Allied Command post was a spawn point ala Radar?)

IS there a chance that the non-released SD maps would be released to mappers to be completed?

(G0-Gerbil) #64

Map time limit is up to the map-maker really.
People who want to make clan war maps will do so, others (like me) aiming for the public market will map accordingly.

As far as I’m aware, the competition will be open to both types of map, so you’ll probably get some great clan maps - just that those of us who want bigger ones will also get what we want - IE everyone wins :slight_smile:

(pack) #65

Yes,

as an unofficial update it will probably be something like this.

  • your map will need to support all possible game modes (SW/LMS) so no dual objectives.
  • There will be no timelimitrule.
  • You will probably get some more time for your map
  • (contest is likely to go official)

This update is not official so nothing is sure, but I think it’s better to give you mappers at least some update?

I’m sorry for this late update, I understand most of you like to know as soon as possible about rulechanges, but there is a small bottleneck in the rulemaking process :).

about timelimit:
I won’t comment too much about this because I don’t know yet what the final rules will be, but I think in the end the community will decide what maps will be the winners. And at least some people in the community are looking for some shorter maps (some are happy with the 30 minutes one too :)). Just hinting…

Ideally, winning maps will need to be suitable for both clan and public play. I always think that clan maps are suitable for public play too, but that the opposite isn’t always the case :slight_smile:

@
Gerbil: just thinking I don’t know for sure, but if mapping contest would go official, that you would be allowed to use exact lotr replica’s in your map (?) Maybe this can be difficult for legal stuff and so on… (better inform yourself)

(G0-Gerbil) #66

Well, visually they can’t do anything - it’s a homage and I’m not using any of their copyright assets directly in the map itself.

Audio, now THATs different, and I will do my research, but I imagine I’ll be able to do the same as people who sample - IE use samples no longer than a given amount of time (can’t remember off top of head - I think it’s either 15 or 20 seconds if properly creditted etc). Since the audio is only one part of the map, it’s not a derivative work in that sense.

I should be OK, but if there’s a potential issue that you guys aren’t happy with, we’ll either work something out or I’ll pull it from the competition - no point getting you lot into trouble :smiley:

(Detoeni) #67

It would be most useful if we could have a bit more of a definite answer for just how much more time we will/might get before we need to have a beta ready by?

(pack) #68

I’m sorry. I asked SD allready some times but atm they are quite busy with some important part of their current project and this contest has lower priority. You can’t do much than wait untill they’re finished with that part before you guys get more information…

(chavo_one) #69

What’s the status of this competition? January 10th is coming up very soon. Have we ever seen a revised rule list?

(TosspoT) #70

oooh thats this saturday

(pack) #71

this date will definitely be postponed…

(Demo) #72

Its a shame, the best damn fps ever whont stand long because it was released as a free game.

(gerby) #73

Yer what?
It being free virtually guaranteed it the success it currently is.
If it had been a pay to buy, I doubt it would be enjoying a fraction of the success it currently is.
All I can say is I´m damn glad the SP side was canned, best thing that ever happened to ET.

What WILL kill it though is it´s small number of maps, and the huuuuge amount of crap customs that are out for it. Now thankfully it´s not quite as abysmal as the RTCW custom map scene was (since many RTCW mappers shifted to ET and have learnt plenty already) but it´s not far off. This competition, if successful, should be the shot in the arm the game needs to keep on going quite happily.

(G0-Gerbil) #74

As a new comment, how about this as a rule:

‘Maps must load within the default hunkmegs else they will be disqaulified immediately’

Thought of this cos of the stalin map (although had been lurking in back of mind from others before).
Not that I want to rule out stalin itself, but I do think that maps in the map pack must run ‘as-is’ without requiring either a config change, or possibly ruling out lower-end setups that don’t have the spare ram.

It’s kinda mean I know, but somehow I doubt SD themselves would release a map that crashed on many people’s system when you tried to run it :frowning:

(DG) #75

I for one would consider it a major map bug if players (or servers) crashed or couldnt load a map when using default settings.

I’d assume it likely that the map would have to run OK on the normal range of people’s setups aswell, i.e. not be much worse for smoothness than the official ones. Certainly running well on even low-end setups would be a significant plus anyway, though of course visual appeal of a map is another, perhaps competing, area for consideration, so I guess there would have to be something of a trade-off sometimes.

Not sure what’s happening atm with the contest btw, afaik it’s still on hold waiting for feedback from SD.

(fraSer) #76

As part of the map pack install, would it not be possible to write a small file that would change the hunkmeg value in the config file to a slightly higher value?
Would help alot of other people to play the custom maps. As well as the Stalingrad map, i had problems witha couple of others maps, Bulge and one other, but i cant remember which at the moment.
.
Although i can certainly see the advantages of insisting that the maps run on the default setup.
.
Can i also just say that, people shouldn’t let this ‘Map Update Pack’ just slide.
The game would suffer no harm from semi-officially endorsed update, it would help to keep the game feel fresh.

(G0-Gerbil) #77

I don’t think you could write a config to do what you ask without requiring people to manually change something else, and it’s the whole ‘people must change XYZ’ that’s the sticking point. Not because I’m against it as such, but because people WILL get it wrong, and they’ll blame you, and everyone else, and it will get a bad rep.

Really the maps must run with a default set up - I think DG’s way of looking at it as a ‘bug’ is entirely justified, because that’s exactly how people who can’t run the maps will see it.

It’s possible to sort your maps to use less hunkmegs - stalingrad is well on it’s way so there’s hope for the rest of us!

(ToeD) #78

how far is this contest now?

(DG) #79

last i heard pack was giving up hassling SD to get back to him, far as I know they still havent. :frowning:

(G0-Gerbil) #80

OK well, in that case can we just get rid of the ‘official’ aspirations and just formulate a proper set of rules for the competition?
Dunno about the rest of you but I’m still up for it?