Map in conceptual phase - soliciting feedback and suggestion

(Ifurita) #1

Working thru a map concept, learning as I go (have been at this for all of 2 weeks) and need some input on making this a viable, playable, fun map. I’ve laid out and laid out most of the buildings, done ZERO coding, and still need to finalize the objectives. So, I thought I’d get your all’s input on a couple of issues. Here’s a bird’s eye view of the map.

A. I think the Axis objectives are pretty straight forward:

  1. Gain access to an ammo point
  2. Transport special ammunition to a truck
  3. Escort truck to the zeppelin

I’m having a harder time with the allied objectives. Currently, they have to:

  1. Blow up a hydrogen storage farm (which is analogous to blowing open the ammo bunker door

Now, I need a second or third objective that is on the same level of difficulty as transporting an objective and escorting a vehicle.

Here is the mission briefing is this helps:

Allied forces have overrun an Axis air base and were in the process of destroy Hitler’s ability to re-arm, re-fuel, and repair his fleet of zeppelins.

Before the destruction could be completed, the Axis forces counterattacked and now have control over part of the base.

The Axis are trying to secure chemical weapons stored at the Ammunition Supply Point (ASP) and load them onto the Zeppelin for a last ditch terror offensive against Great Britain.

The Allies must prevent this from happening, while simultaneously destroying the hydrogen storage tanks and the zeppelin control facility!

B. The map is good sized, all of the brushes are structural, and you can run thru almost all of the buildings i’ve constructed. Most of them have multiple rooms. I still need to put in furnishings into most of them. I suppose to help FPS, I can make some of them solid, block up some rooms, and close off windows.

C. I have 3 prefabs (trailer and 2 tractors) that are currently brushwork that could be turned into models. BTW, what is the difference between a game_model and a misc_model?

D. A couple of people have suggested turning the zeppelin into a model. however, there is a railing/catwalk that runs over the top of it. If I make the zep a model, can brushwork still be added to it or can all of the brushwork be compiled into the model

E. Can anyone provide suggestions on where I could put hintbrushes to help FPS?

F. I ran into a max_visibility_exceeded error when compiling -vis. What exactly causes this and how do I fix it?

G. I need a clever way of blocking off the map edges so that people don’t just stand at the void. Any suggestions?

Thanks … be gentle

(TIHan) #2

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(SCDS_reyalP) #3

My first thought looking at your layout was that it would have FPS problems. Since you have multiple free-standing buildings with relatively large spaces between them, and varying heights, most of your map will be drawn at any given time. I don’t see hints making a huge improvement. You could use fog, and distance culling. That would be the simplest solution. Beware that fog has its own performance impact, and many players dislike it.

Otherwise, you would need to re-do your layout such that the buildings actually prevent you from seeing large parts of the map. The way to do this is to think of your open spaces as hallways, rather having buildings sitting out on a big open area (think about mp_village in RTCW. Notice how each of the courtyards has an S turn between it and the next one, and the buildings actually go all the way up to the sky. Also think about the ET maps like oasis, fuel dump, and radars, where the map is broken up into several distinct areas by hills that go all the way up to the sky, and these areas are hidden from each other by S turns).

Also remember that if your zepalin or hangers are made out of patch meshes (curves) they will not block vis at all. Neither will models.

F. I ran into a max_visibility_exceeded error when compiling -vis. What exactly causes this and how do I fix it?

Briefly, you need to use structure and detail correctly. A search should find you several decent threads on the subject, with more links. Nibs tutorial is a good place to start http://www.nibsworld.com/rtcw/tutorial_detail_and_hint_brushes_part1.shtml

G. I need a clever way of blocking off the map edges so that people don’t just stand at the void. Any suggestions?

Thanks … be gentle

Hills around, or maybe a wall or fence. If people can still see over the edge, you can use a skybox, either made up of images for each of the sides, or a props_skyportal.

(JIM_BOB7813) #4

You could add some hint brushes.

I’ve made a sample .map showing the placement of them.

D/L here.

It shows the hanger, and 3 hints placed surrounding it.
So if the player is enclosed in one side, they shouldn’t be drawing the other.
So if you are in area 1, you won’t be drawing area 2.
This will be quite useful since your hanger is very long, and covers quite a bit of the map. Unless it has “detailed” brushes in it, and doesn’t “block vis” completely.
Or has windows/doors.

But going on what you have posted. It looks like you’ll have entrances, windows etc. Then you might have to place hints around them too, just like I have shown.

If you have lots of windows, then it might not be worth hinting that area at all. Or you could just go hint crazy. :fiesta:

(Ifurita) #5

Thanks

My intention was that the zeppelin and hanger would act somewhat as blocking terrain, to section the map in half.

I’ll be the first to acknowledge that I know little about hint brushes. However, I would have thought hint brushes would have run parallel to the hanger and zep and not perpendicular like you have in your example. Why is that?

(Stektr33) #6

Maybe the allies can steal a map that will be required by the Axis to navigate to their respective Great Britain targets. The map should already be in or around the zepellin.

Also, I noticed that the whole map is enclosed in wire fence but what about the runway? Will there be an invisible wall there or something to block the players from reaching the edge of the map? Maybe cut off the bottom part of the runway so you can see it end and then just continue the fencing there, and then on top part of it maybe put a rested airplane there, as if it was ready to take off but abandoned at the last minute. Or maybe some rubble, since you indicated there were some bomb damaged buildings.

(flashkillaman) #7

it would be nice if you can go in the zepelin

(Ifurita) #8

That was a good tutorial by Nib. Highly recommend it to everyone. As a test, I went thru and turned all the fencing around the motorpool, ASP, and the fuel dump into detail brushes, and it turned 1200 of 4300 total brushes into detail.

Well, you can’t really go into the zeppelin, but there are two gondolas underneath and a catwalk running along the top with a fore & aft MG42. Yes, I took a little creative license

Here’s a bottom view along the zep

And a top view of catwalk on spine of zep and walkways along side of hanger

The FOV from the rear MG is pretty limited, probably to less than 10% of the map and I’m going to add a slick texture to the whole top part of the body so that people can’t actually walk on the skin of the zep

(JIM_BOB7813) #9

However, I would have thought hint brushes would have run parallel to the hanger and zep and not perpendicular like you have in your example. Why is that?

I don’t think that would work as well. If you think about it,(I may be wrong) when you do it my way, then the two biggest areas above and below the hanger(from plan view) cannot see each other.

Some pics:( thetrigger texture represents portals, shadernotfound is the hanger)

hintifhanger1.JPG917x569

This shows the leaf nodes when no hints are used. (I could be wrong).

The areas top-left and bottom-right can see each other.

Next pic:
This shows the same but with hints used. I have exaggerated the hints so you can see them.

Now the nodes that run parallel to the long sides of the hanger cannot see each other. So when the player is in one, the other isn’t drawn.

This is just how I understand hinting. It might be wrong.

(chavo_one) #10

How can you predict which way the portals are split before hinting? The compiler could just as easily split the portals parallel to the short sides of the hangar as it could split it parallel to the long sides. That’s why you need to use the portal viewer after a compile to verify the actual splits.

(JIM_BOB7813) #11

Yes, you are correct.
I used that to contrast two ways it could be cut, and forgot to say it could be either. I don’t really know how q3map2, (or whatever does decide it) decides which ways to cut the vis.

But even if the vis was split like in my second pic, the areas might not reach all the way to the skybox. So hints going all the way across should help?

(creampuff) #12

Your map seems kind of small. The building that holds the zeppelin seems to small in realtion to to the blimp.

I think the map were devided it up with some terrain you could make a larger zeppelin hanger, smaller hangers and the airstrip in a center large section in the middle. You could then have some small hills seperating that area from the Ammo supply point, motorpool, etc. I’m picturing something like the assault level from the Single Player RTCW.

Adding some openness will give us medics a chance against those lvl 4 panzers.

Keep up the good work.

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(Ifurita) #13

Here’s a picture of the zeppelin hanger at Frankfurt am Main. i read one story where is said that there was only 2 ft clearance between the top of the zeppelin and the roof of the hanger

http://www.altfrankfurt.com/Spezial/Zeppelin/Hangar/Luftschiffhalle2.htm

(Kobis) #14

About the allied spawn, maybe you could have a seperate area for the allies to start in, make the allied spawn into the initial axis spawn, then when the allies blow a gate or something, they gain access to that spawn (a la Radar).

I really like the lighting that you have in the first screenshot.

(redfella) #15

Perhaps consider some terrain?

(if this was already mentioned dont shun me for I didnt read the previous posts :eek3: )