Map Expectations

(EterneX) #1

What do you expect from a really good map(what makes a really good map)?

I want to know what everyone thinks makes a really good map so I have something to go off of somewhat in the future. Please be very detailed and clear.

Thank you

(Ifurita) #2

Really depends. Pub vs comp, large servers vs small server, campaign vs stopwatch? What makes a good map, really depends on your target audience, and even then no one can really come to any concensus.

(carnage) #3

visuals. they stop putting the players in your map and into the place you want them to go, i find that when mapping fo a game look at the stop levels in detail. go into devmap mode look how the tris are constructed, then try make something that will be orgianl but will look in place with the game

oh yeah and look for things that ocour in several levels, in ET the telegraph poles. if you place them in your map in a similar way the player will prob think you map fit better

(SiX) #4

^^^ What iffy said…

…But a few things that I personally pay attention to when mapping are game play, performance, balance and detail. Maps should be easy to navigate i.e., not have 14 different paths to take to the same destination. Designs should be well planned beforehand to avoid complications later. Draw it out; mock it up, whatever your fancy may be. When it comes to details, don’t go crazy. Add them in where they are necessary but don’t use them to just fill space. Basically you want to create railings for stairs and add in things like pipes and electrical panels, but you don’t want to create a 512x512 square room and fill it with boxes. IMO good maps have everything. They are fun to play and they look great. I know its not quite the answer you are looking for but it will hopefully give you some direction on whatever it is you are looking to create.

(Loffy) #5

Hi EterneX!
I have these rules when I map:

  • FPS is king. Meaning, your map must have a good frames-per-second. I always want a steady 60-80 fps in the important areas. If I get that, then most other players will get it too since I have an old computer with a geforceIII Ti500.
  • If players spawn in a room, there should be multiple exits, and big doors. No silly, small doors. I do not like to get stuck when running out from spawn and I’m sure most players agree with me.
  • the final pk3 must be under 10 Mb. 3-4 is perfect.
  • clip-brushes in fast sections. I mean, I cover small objects on the walls (eg buttons, knobs, metal boxes, valves, IF they are small) with clip brushes. I make sure that fast players can move really fast in the areas (eg corridors). I am myself a fast, trickjumping moving guy and I make maps that I personally enjoy running around in.
    *atleast one or two really good hiding spots. There are always players that like to camp or hide (with the objective, for example). For them, I put in a few small, dark areas. All my maps have these small, dark rooms and areas. Check out berserk_te.

These are “rules” but of course there are many, many great maps out there with pk3’s larger than 10 Mb, small doors and narrow corridors leading from spawn, and/or fps drops under 60 fps.

//Loffy

(Codename_Ty) #6

What makes a really good map? Atmosphere, Interactivity and Playability. The combination of good brushwork, great textures and ambient noises can really immerse a player in a map. Add to that a good backstory for the level and multilayered objectives(destroy x, y or z in order to open up new areas or disable something in order to make it easier to go to a primary objective) and you can have yourself a real gem.

While no map should have 14 different ways to get to a primary objective…having less than 2 or 3 is a bad idea since the defending team can just camp the one or two areas all day long, having more is essential, especially if you want your map to wind up on public servers.

In regards to Interactivity, if you’re going to put lots of doors in your map, over half of them should be able to be opened, there’s nothing more asinine than seeing a map where there’s at least 12 doors and none of them open. You should also make enough constructibles for engineers and some things for coverts to get their hands in (satchable secondary objectives perhaps or enemy constructibles).

I would also suggest that if you’re going to make changes to models or maps, make the changes worthwhile and make sure they look right. For example, not to demean anyone, especially since the person in question has made a few good maps, but recently there was a release of a map in which one of the sd truck models (the pickup) was supposed to be used as an ambulence. This message was conveyed simply by putting on a sheet of cloth on the side of the truck with a red cross) rather than taking the time to actually make a convincing ambulence model (which I am working on atm for a couple of my upcoming maps).

To me, something like that can destroy an otherwise good map, same with loud textures, scripts and audio for recruitment purposes plastered everywhere in the map. Should you want to put in recruitment messages or advertisments for a certain site or two (and there is certainly nothing wrong with that), do so in moderation and perhaps just as textures, keeping to a WWII inspired theme (or whatever theme your map is going for).

Good FPS is also essential but take into account that most people have upgraded to a Geforce 5200 by now (what I have), if not better. You can get a decent one for $50 dollars or a souped up one for $70 some on newegg.

One more thing. Please do not listen to anyone who says 4MB maps are the perfect size. Your map is what you make it, regardless of how big or small the file size becomes, the time you put in, the effort and loving care you show towards the product will pay off in spades if you’re totally committed to it.

Do not rush it, whatever you do and don’t leave out anything that you want to include, all of the official maps are 14MB and over. There are some great maps that are in the 40 MB range (Marketgarden) and some horrible maps 2MB and below. In fact I don’t think I’ve played a map that I’ve liked that has been below 2MB’s, Rovaniemi Farm is the smallest map that is a good play imo and clocks in around 2.5MB’s.

Be true to yourself though, there is so much junk out there, big and small, some of it looks like it couldn’t have taken more than a couple hours and inexplicably is wildly popular among certain crowds. All told there is probably 100, or less quality maps out of the 700 plus produced for the game so far…thankfully we have some quality mappers out that have been prolific, which have stopped ET from being crushed under the weight of all the junk. So take your time with it, don’t rush and make a quality piece of work.

I wish you the best of luck and if you need any help, don’t be afraid to ask, that’s what we’re here for. Please, don’t forget to playtest, too many people do and it turns a map that could have been great with a few changes into a total disaster. I know my clan and I are happy to offer our servers for playtesting purposes to anyone who wants to do it (whether it be public or private playtesting, we can do either, or both). So, don’t let opportunities and offers for playtesting pass you by cause it’s certainly necessary.

Once again, all the best and let us know how it goes.

(Luxuriant) #7

Pubs and most comps use these maps in some form.
oasis
fueldump
goldrush
supplydepot2
venice

Why? Quality, game play.

(Codename_Ty) #8

While it’s true that comps use supplydepot2 in some form or another, I wouldn’t associate the word “quality” with that map. No offense to those involved in making it.

I also would point out that while I like the map quite a bit, I’ve never seen fueldump played in any leagues that I’m aware of, but if you know of any, please let me know.

(Shaderman) #9

I’ve never seen fueldump played in any leagues that I’m aware of, but if you know of any, please let me know.

Clanbase 6on6 Stopwatch Europe for example

(Codename_Ty) #10

Nice. I haven’t done any checking of European leagues, since we only have a handful of members from across the pond. Mostly Americans and Canadians. So once again, if you can give an example, over my way, it would be much appreciated (and not just a ladder, but actual league). Thanks.

(Loffy) #11

WND| Codename Ty, what maps have you done?

(Codename_Ty) #12

That I’ve released? None. I’m working on several projects now. I’m not going to release anything, at any stage of development, until I am satisified with the project and it’s the best it can be. Taking your time can benefit all involved, both the level designers, the rest of the team (if applicable) and the community at large (especially server admins and having sifted through etmaps.de 's extensive (what is it now 700 +?) library, I speak from personal experience).

(Detoeni) #13

Please do not listen to anyone who says 4MB maps are the perfect size

Bang On!
Same for the rest of the post

Market Garden is only a tiny 12Mb :wink:
edit: just thought I’d point out that 12Mb is what you DownLoad, not its size sat in RTCW main (because someone never compressed the pk3, just the zip).

(Pytox) #14

Yea lol the map me and kamikazee our making is already 8MB big and its only the terrain lolz :stuck_out_tongue:

(carnage) #15

8MB big and its only the terrain

how big is this map!!! is this the .map or the bsp?

(FireFly) #16

…until I am satisified with the project and it’s the best it can be. Taking your time can benefit all involved …

I totally agree…

Creating maps takes time: I’ve seen so many maps that have a great layout, great gameplay, decent fps, but still looks like crap because the mapper did not pay any attention towards adding details, proper lightning or got rid of mis-aligned textures, seams etc…

(Sauron|EFG) #17

I expect to find Iffy’s name in the credits somewhere. :stuck_out_tongue:

True, but file size does affect how well a map is received. A map that constantly empties a server (because it takes a long time to download) is more likely to be removed from rotation than a map that most people can download in a couple minutes.

(kamikazee) #18

This is the first terrain test, generated with gtkgensurf. It still has plain triangles out of the playing field and is not hulled like it should be. It is now 1 open area till I’m happy with it, if I would cut it in sections I can’t regenerate the terrain without doing the sectioning again.

I believe the .map file is 10-11 MB, the .bsp is about 8-9 MB including test (sky) lighting.

Once again, it’s just temporary.

(Codename_Ty) #19

True, but file size does affect how well a map is received. A map that constantly empties a server (because it takes a long time to download) is more likely to be removed from rotation than a map that most people can download in a couple minutes.

I assume that’s why Marketgarden was so popular or how so many people have Drakir’s doublepack with Fliegerhorst and Rhine Bridge, which totals a little over 30MB’s? How about Stalingrad, clocking in at 18.5 MB’s or Venice at 19.6MB’s? I seem to recall both of those became widely popular as well. All great maps and all in the upper middle to high end of the spectrum in terms of filesize and yet all very popular and well received.

Gone are the days of people having 56k connections in spades, cable or DSL is the norm and if people can’t wait a few minutes to download maps or soundpacks, they have no business being on customs servers in the first place. I checked the useage stats only a couple months ago and 4 of the top 5 most popular servers were customs servers, including Chicken Bucket and Terminal Insanity (both of which usually run great rotations, where quality rather than file size is the order of the day) if memory serves correctly.

I’d also venture to guess the people who play Counter Strike Source or HL2 DM have no problems with downloading maps or soundpacks, etc…the longest in game downloads I’ve ever had have been in those games and look at how popular they are…

Once again, it’s not how big the file is, but the quality of the map that matters. I would rather put Marketgarden on my server than 15 to 20 subpar maps in it’s place anyday. Should that mean we get players disconnecting, due to them not wanting to wait for download, so be it. We’d rather have people come to hang out and to play great maps, big and small, well known or unheard of, then to suffer through well known junk day after day, popular only because the files have been kept small and you can win the map in under three minutes.

Servers are around for those who own/rent them to have fun and make new friends with like minded people. You don’t want to take a chance on a decent sized to large file, don’t, just don’t expect the majority to feel that way.

(Pytox) #20

Yea it is, it takes long to download…
Look @ the mod made with quake-a-like sounds, i see a lot of servers that uses it :wink: