Making Thunder more fun to play with and against

(hoyes) #1

Welcome, to the mind of a thunder main, one who, for many months, was the absolute bane of your existence, doing stupid things that somehow worked, and abusing certain angles in maps that enabled me to have a free win every 15 seconds.

Aah, good times … ( I probs triggered everyone).

After many months of using this great Russian banger, I started getting tired and bored: it felt too easy, too simple, too unrewarding to play thunder. I remember playing a ranked match and these guys started asking me on the other team to switch off, not playing seriously, just spamming crouch when I approached them. They just gave up. And I hated it. It made me realise how stupid Thunder is, and began to literally refuse to play him until he was properly nerfed.

Then the most recent nerfs came, nerfing his health, and general durations of effects. The stark nerf was of no notice to me, I always use the mk46. I started playing him again, hoping I would finally feel rewarded for playing him, he must be fair right?

Well yes… And No. Thunder may not be broken anymore, but that does not change the fact that he is unfun to fight against, while taking seemingly little skill to play. This thread is knowledge from 120hours of thunder playtime, with 100 of them being with the mk46, and I will provide solutions that fix clear issues with Thunders design which make high level players question his place in the game.

Problem 1- The unavoidability of the grenade
Currently, the fuse on the concussion grenade is 1 second. As a form of comparison, this is the same delay that javelin had at release, and people complained about her then. The problem with this fuse, is that it can be used way too reactively, using it anytime in a fight without meaningful drawbacks, especially if backed up by your team. This does not promote skilful play, as well as makes the nade feel inconsistent as you do not have good control of the nade.

Fix 1-Give nade cooking
Similar to fragger, this provides good counterplay mid fight, as well as promotes skillful play. Problem with this is that it makes thunder too much like fragger, giving much less reason to play thunder over him. Other changes such as the emp, increased duration, or removal of self blinding would be needed to not make thunders nade obsolete.

Fix 2-Increase the fuse timer
This is another conceivable option, but would require a couple things if increased dramatically. Does not fix many long-standing issues such as actually requiring timing to play, but does nerf the mid firefight option.

Problem 2- Randomly getting flashed
Another issue with Thunder is how annoying and unfun it is to get randomly flashed seemingly out of nowhere, with little to no counterplay.

Fix-If you are not in the actual radius of the nade, you only get a white filter over your screen
This is a very good change to stop spawnflashing and making the flash effect feel less random and unfun. This I believe to be a change that is a given, and should be implemented.

Problem 3-Thunders tankiness
This is not that large of a problem, but it is an issue nonetheless. Thunder basically gets free wins in 1v1 situations, without even having to try to aim. However, he also has the issue of being really slow and makes him feel very clunky too (I bet even after this patch).

Fix- Reduce hp to 150 increase speed to 385 (was 380 after next patch)

This should make him be able to get into the action much faster, while making him less overbearing when fighting in a head to head fight.

I know this was a long post, but I felt it was necessary as I do not like where thunder is at currely in the game, and feel mixtures of these changes would greatly improve his gameplay. Let me know what you think of my ideas!

(Da_Mummy) #2

Sadly I don’t even think that this would make Thunder comparable to Fragger.
Why would anyone choose the big Russian man with the lungs of steel and eyes like an interesting night before over the meta American Pinaple launcher.

Weapons: Even though the K121 has less ammo and fires slower it inflicts more damage per shoot which is really noticeble when you get the hang of the spray. The Mk46 is a real glass needle Shooter and unless you have the conc advantage and really good headtracking you just going to loose every 1v1 because it just doesn’t do enough damage (especially when fighting targets that get healed by an Aura Station making it impossible to get a kill). And overall are fraggers weapons just way more practical.
But that’s just statistic what really hurts are their
Abilities: Alright simple Logics
would you prefer a grenade that is fairly easy to Control and time that can kill any merc you throw it at or at least hurts them enough to be finished by 2-3 shoots
OR a grenade that has a really wonky AoE, doesn’t even fully stun opponents and has no other utility against buildings anymore
If you choose the second one congratulations you just proved to everybody that you don’t know how FPSs work.

Now all of that sounds more pessimistic than it probably should be but I don’t have a single clue how Thunder is supposed to be unique and viable next to fragger and as long as fragger isn’t getting nerfed into oblivion (hopefully not) Thunder will always just be the guy on the side.
From earlier discussions I know that SD thinks in kind of the same direction and a lot of new Thunder ideas have been made already in the community as well as by yours truly.

In CONClusion: I love Thunder in every imaginable way and his accent is gold, but I don’t think that he can work with his current concept with beeing inferior to Fragger.
Still like the post and the effort put in it.

(hoyes) #3

@Da_Mummy Ye I understand, but I did suggest, similar to his release, he could get the emp back if he had cooking, giving him the capability of being effective on offense.

Also the mk46, I do believe needs less spread increase, and maybe a tad more range( damage drop off etc.), but i chose not to mention it here as I felt the conc nade was more important in terms of focusing his changes on. But yes, I do agree it is quite weak past point blank range, requiring you to ads.

Tbh tho, I feel he could be stronger than fragger on defense, as enemies tend to group up on offense without ‘setting up’ too much (or at least in comparison to defence), meaning thunder has more of a chance of affecting more enemies than a frag, which is usually there to kill 1 or 2 and MAYBE damaging others. If Thunder has cooking I strongly believe he could .

Plus Thunder does have less downtime for the conc, with the fuse timer being 3 seconds shorter plus actually have a stasis effect that lasts roughly 5 seconds. This means ideally you only have 12 seconds of downtime, which is quite good for an ability as powerful as it is if played well.

But thats just my 2 cents.

(GatoCommodore) #4

buff MK46 again