Make EV harder to destroy?

(Glot) #1

I hugely dislike how EV Objectives turn into a constant disable/repair fest.
When i play an engineer (and i play a nice engineer) i repair EV about 10+ times on its path if the enemy team has good Skyhammers.
But for the sake of dynamics and less repeatitive gameplay i think 3 EV repairs is more than enough on a whole path.
I also keep in mind Stoker - a merc with a Molotov cocktail, who used to destroy EV in no-time.
So i suggest that EV should be harder to destroy by AOE abilities like Airstrikes, Molotovs, Nades etc. Though nades are not the main problem here atm.

(Ruvan) #2

Reducing the effectiveness of air strikes/artillery is obvious, imho. I think about 50% damage for a well placed air strike would be fair. 25% damage for artillery.

However, I’d like to see the effectiveness of small arms and the stationary machine guns increased versus the EV. Especially the stationary machine guns.

I personally feel like the stationary machine guns should be the primary way of taking out the EV because it means you have to hold specific parts of the map (which adds depth). Furthermore, the machine guns are easily countered by snipers, meaning you add some counter play in there. Lastly, it would make the “Cool” perk actually worthwhile and desirable.

Given the placement of the LMGs on Chapel, I was actually pretty surprised that they did very little damage to the EV.

(Glot) #3

[quote=“Ruvan;18957”]Reducing the effectiveness of air strikes/artillery is obvious, imho. I think about 50% damage for a well placed air strike would be fair. 25% damage for artillery.

However, I’d like to see the effectiveness of small arms and the stationary machine guns increased versus the EV. Especially the stationary machine guns.

I personally feel like the stationary machine guns should be the primary way of taking out the EV because it means you have to hold specific parts of the map (which adds depth). Furthermore, the machine guns are easily countered by snipers, meaning you add some counter play in there. Lastly, it would make the “Cool” perk actually worthwhile and desirable.

Given the placement of the LMGs on Chapel, I was actually pretty surprised that they did very little damage to the EV. [/quote]

big yes to Small-guns dmg increase (to the EV).
and i also would like the MG-nest importance to be there. (mb we can even get MG-nest a constructable side objective like they were in ETQW)

(capriciousParsely) #4

I agree. Or increase the repair rate for everyone. If a team has 3-4 skyhammers, you can’t do anything.

(Humbug) #5

Just remove this EV.
It just got copied from ET but is working very different and in a unenjoyable way
Whole team is playing teamdeathmatch while 1 idiot has to repair and escort the EV.
The EV is what causes the spawncamp issues.

my version of chapel:
Forward Spawn (ET style) directly in front of the Chapel.
Wall at the EV garage. When wall is destroyed, forward spawn is permanently captured.
Then Steal EMP-charges (from the building) and deliver (near ev-garage). This can be done without destroying the wall, using the trickjump at the forward spawn. A trickplant at the wall should also be included

Much more tactics and spawnkilling is impossible
just need selectable spawns and spawnflags

http://s15.postimg.org/9i26035vv/ETchapel.jpg

E: forgot defender teamdoor at the wall :smiley:

(Szakalot) #6

Im also in favor of EV objectives that are about ‘how long can the defence hold them off’ rather than ’ if we disable the EV here, we can keep this choke for the next 15min’

(Glot) #7

[quote=“Humbug;18977”]Just remove this EV.
It just got copied from ET but is working very different and in a unenjoyable way
Whole team is playing teamdeathmatch while 1 idiot has to repair and escort the EV.
The EV is what causes the spawncamp issues.

my version of chapel:
Forward Spawn (ET style) directly in front of the Chapel.
Wall at the EV garage. When wall is destroyed, forward spawn is permanently captured.
Then Steal EMP-charges (from the building) and deliver (near ev-garage). This can be done without destroying the wall, using the trickjump at the forward spawn. A trickplant at the wall should also be included

Much more tactics and spawnkilling is impossible
just need selectable spawns and spawnflags

E: forgot defender teamdoor at the wall :smiley:
[/quote]
i’d like to try this.
these changes seem to be hardly unlikely to happen.
but what you’re basically saying is “give us SDK, and we’ll make great maps”
and i totally agree with that!

(Humbug) #8

[quote=“Glottis-3D;18990”]
i’d like to try this.
these changes seem to be hardly unlikely to happen.
but what you’re basically saying is “give us SDK, and we’ll make great maps”
and i totally agree with that![/quote]

I think they shouldn’t launch with those maps to be honest.
Made a post at SD forums xD

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/44130-Please-remake-stopwatch-maps!!!-(-Idea-for-chapel)

(watsyurdeal) #9

I’ve seen both sides of this, where a team can’t get in to repair, or a team can’t seem to stop the EV.

Problem really is more about communication and team composition, not that the EV is totally not worth having, or that it’s too easy to destroy.

Just get shit done and communicate, I really don’t understand what is so complicated.

(Szakalot) #10

[quote=“majesticClue;19028”]I’ve seen both sides of this, where a team can’t get in to repair, or a team can’t seem to stop the EV.

Problem really is more about communication and team composition, not that the EV is totally not worth having, or that it’s too easy to destroy.

Just get shit done and communicate, I really don’t understand what is so complicated.[/quote]

there are just a few edges of the ‘dynamic spawn system’ where you spawn really far from the EV, relative to the defenders, so its hard to get it rolling; esp. in the chokes.

(fubar) #11

The airstrike already has a ridiculous long cooldown and needs to be near-to perfectly thrown to fully damage the E.V from 100 to 0, proposing that it should be nerfed is an idiotic statement to say the least. Especially considering your opinion is biased towards 8vs8 public play, when the game is “designed” to be 5vs5. Not to mention skyhammer being in the free rotation and everyone playing him. I’ve seen 5 to 6 skyhammers a team on maps such as terminal just as much as on trainyard. It really isn’t the abilities’, merc’s or E.V’s fault.

If anything you should be proposing a merc limitation or explosives limitation, ie: never more than 3 airstrikes within timeframe X, throwing more will result in failure (reset of ability to ~15 cd) or even simpler, no more than 2 concurrent skyhammers on a team. Done deal.

(smartIsland) #12

I think it ev’s perfectly fine at the moment. I have very rarely had issues with airstrike spam and the EV. (maybe spam on objectives… but not EV) If your team has only one person trying to repair that’s your teams problem not the game.

(triteTongs) #13

For the most part, I see maybe two people per game that ever go near the EV to either repair it or push it.

Which blows my mind, because I’m pretty sure the EV moves faster with the more people around it. If you factor that in, no amount of arty or skyhammers can keep it down. Their abilities just can’t keep up with it.

I think this is more of a case of people not understanding how the map works.

(Glot) #14

It was like this 1 year ago. the more ppl near EV - the faster it drives (there was a number above the EV that show the exact number).
But now speed doesnt depend on ppl.

(D'@athi) #15

Mh, funny, still got the feeling the ev moves faster with five people around it than pushing it alone. But what i am pretty sure of and I get it confirmed in most casual matches… it doesn’t move at all with no one around…
Since I don’t want to play competetive anymore, gotten to old whiny whiny thingy :stuck_out_tongue: … probably someone with 5vs5 competetive experience really should answer this about balancing.

But even thinking of balancing this game around the usual 8vs8"gotten my key from alienware, i don’t know what to do, but i try to play cs-tdm"-ape will imo be the death of the game.
No more people waiting for another kind of et, cause there is much more performant and graphically competition in tdm-games, and thus, no more base for getting ppl to try it and and probably stay.

Ps: Sorry for beeing this blunt, but atm it’s just a game flodded by obvious cheaters and people not even interested in what this teamplay-thing is all about. So please forgive my strong language, but i had a few rounds of dirty-bomb today…

(watsyurdeal) #16

[quote=“D’@athi;19098”]
Ps: Sorry for beeing this blunt, but atm it’s just a game flodded by obvious cheaters and people not even interested in what this teamplay-thing is all about. So please forgive my strong language, but i had a few rounds of dirty-bomb today…[/quote]

No you are right, people don’t want to work together, and I think that’s a problem with gamers in general today. Ever since CoD became popular less and less people actually want to communicate and play together, me personally, I’d love to be able to hop on a server, start talking, and start hearing people talk back, but it’s rare.

A lot of times it’s just me and 3 others, or nobody at all.

(APRenpsy) #17

No I’m pretty sure the speed depends on people. However this time you need at least four people on the EV to even notice the difference. It is really noticeable if you are on the EV mg, you feel as if the EV sudden jumps forward a bit when four people get near it.

(Szakalot) #18

[quote=“majesticClue;19103”][quote=“D’@athi;19098”]
Ps: Sorry for beeing this blunt, but atm it’s just a game flodded by obvious cheaters and people not even interested in what this teamplay-thing is all about. So please forgive my strong language, but i had a few rounds of dirty-bomb today…[/quote]

No you are right, people don’t want to work together, and I think that’s a problem with gamers in general today. Ever since CoD became popular less and less people actually want to communicate and play together, me personally, I’d love to be able to hop on a server, start talking, and start hearing people talk back, but it’s rare.

A lot of times it’s just me and 3 others, or nobody at all.[/quote]

i think its nostalgia talking.

Back in the W:ET day there would be plenty of headless chickens too. Someone is trollolling with a flamethrower, killinghalf their team : P Someone else would camp the oasis pump alone, even though both guns have dyna on them ,etc.

(triteTongs) #19

I’ve noticed, for the most part church is the map that has the least amount of teamwork going on. Every single time i play it.

I’m usually the only one repairing, the only one pushing. Everyone else is usually running around trying to find enemies to kill. I really don’t get it.

Delivering the objective is usually worse. Everyone is trying to kill the entire enemy team from a distance and won’t advance until they do. This usually leads in rash and bold plays where the objective is just rushing in, hoping to rally his people behind him. It typically fails.

(I’ve seen this same pattern while I’m defending too, by the way. Only ONCE have I ever seen a team bundle up with 4 people by the EV after they get a majority of the kills. The EV definitely does speed up, I saw it in my own death cam… for the most part, people just usually wait for the next wave to continue the grind).

(joekerr) #20

I disagree. I think the EV is fine.

The BIG problem with EV maps is that practically the entire freakin team generally positions well behind the EV… leaving the poor proxies to run through a hail of bullets to try and repair.

When the attackers PUSH UP and get ahead of the EV it’s easy as pie to get it going.

And air strikes aren’t a big deal when it only takes maybe 10 seconds to repair the EV as proxy.