Magnums - underpowered spray and pray guns (fix suggestions)


(ProfPlump) #1

The Simeon .357 and the Smyth&Whetsman revolvers in Dirty Bomb are a strange weapon. They have the low firerate and high damage per bullet (which usually lends itself to the ‘skill-requiring’ gun category) but at the same time they have the worst accuracy of pretty much any gun in the game (so there’s nothing you can do to try and use skill with the magnums, since you can’t every aim).

The reason I say that they’re so inaccurate is for two reasons:
1 - once you fire one shot, their hipfire accuracy goes completely out the window. That first shot is the only skill shot you can make, since all the rest are just ‘aim at opponent and hope for the best’.
2 - the usual counter to guns that have bad hipfire accuracy is to ADS, but the magnums also have so much visual recoil (meaning that when you fire, your gun moves) that your enemy will almost always completely disappear behind your magnum, making it impossible to aim.

So the only option you have is to pace your shots so that the hipfire spread returns to normal OR the visual recoil subsides and you can properly ADS again, but this then means that your great DPS that comes with the magnum is gone completely, since you’re firing at around a third of the usual firerate. This means that even when you try to use these guns in a skill-based way, your reward is almost non-existent.

Suggestions:
1 - we could simply reduce the amount of visual recoil they receive per shot, meaning that when spam-firing you would still be able to re-aim after each shot without your recoiling magnum completely blocking your view. This would make the guns a lot more viable and, more importantly, skill-based rather than unreliable spray and pray guns.
2 - we could reduce their rate of fire drastically but at the same time boost their damage per bullet by an equal (or greater) amount, meaning that you are forced to use skill and shoot accurately while getting rewarded by a massive amount of damage per shot. I would suggest increasing their damage per bullet to about 45 up close and around 30 at medium range, while reducing their firerate from 300 to 160.
3 - we could also create an increased multiplier for headshots for the magnums only, so that if you hit a headshot with a magnum, you are doing 3x the normal damage rather than the usual 2x. This would mean that if you choose to pace your shots and shoot accurately at your opponent, you can do some serious damage if you aim for the head. This would also encourage a high-skill element to the revolvers, while they can still be spammed in extreme close quarters.


(K1X455) #2

I honestly don’t like the Simeon .357, and the Smyth & Whetsman’s is just so so for me. I prefer DE .50 with faster fire rate, faster reload and less recoil for lesser damage.


(Yoshimoto) #3

i don’t really think theyre overpowered, i find myself winning 1v1s when im facing someone with a revolver. would be nice to get a weird merc thats based on revolvers/pistols


(Amerika) #4

I absolutely love both of the revolvers. But you can’t panic fire them. But if you are shooting them with intent and keeping yourself controlled they are quite good as high skill cap weapons. I use most of the pistols pretty frequently since I rotate through mercs often. My Fragger loadout has a Deagle and I just find it lacking compared to the revolvers I have and use on Skyhammer and Phantom.

The revolvers, when fired like this, are insane. And their headshot damage is great by comparison. They are sort of like the Dreiss where you have to hipfire at a certain rate at medium/long distances or you’ll just miss everything.


(ProfPlump) #5

Come on, mate. I said they were UNDERpowered - you’re preaching to the choir.


(ProfPlump) #6

[quote=“Amerika;82848”]I absolutely love both of the revolvers. But you can’t panic fire them. But if you are shooting them with intent and keeping yourself controlled they are quite good as high skill cap weapons. I use most of the pistols pretty frequently since I rotate through mercs often. My Fragger loadout has a Deagle and I just find it lacking compared to the revolvers I have and use on Skyhammer and Phantom.

The revolvers, when fired like this, are insane. And their headshot damage is great by comparison. They are sort of like the Dreiss where you have to hipfire at a certain rate at medium/long distances or you’ll just miss everything.[/quote]

But if you slow down your firerate the DPS of the gun becomes far lower, so much so that the M9 or the Selbstadt would be better. The balance is bad when most people would prefer to have those two semi-auto pistols for any situation than to have the magnums.

Also, their damage over range is just awful - it drops off very drastically.


(Amerika) #7

[quote=“ProfPlump;82998”][quote=“Amerika;82848”]I absolutely love both of the revolvers. But you can’t panic fire them. But if you are shooting them with intent and keeping yourself controlled they are quite good as high skill cap weapons. I use most of the pistols pretty frequently since I rotate through mercs often. My Fragger loadout has a Deagle and I just find it lacking compared to the revolvers I have and use on Skyhammer and Phantom.

The revolvers, when fired like this, are insane. And their headshot damage is great by comparison. They are sort of like the Dreiss where you have to hipfire at a certain rate at medium/long distances or you’ll just miss everything.[/quote]

But if you slow down your firerate the DPS of the gun becomes far lower, so much so that the M9 or the Selbstadt would be better. The balance is bad when most people would prefer to have those two semi-auto pistols for any situation than to have the magnums.

Also, their damage over range is just awful - it drops off very drastically.[/quote]

I’d rather have the big hits personally when going for headshots. And I would disagree about the damage drop over range being awful.

I use the revolve quite a bit in that video and it’s rather effective as you can see. However, I won’t argue with a buff since it would help me :slight_smile:


(omegaskorpion) #8

[quote=“Amerika;83005”][quote=“ProfPlump;82998”][quote=“Amerika;82848”]I absolutely love both of the revolvers. But you can’t panic fire them. But if you are shooting them with intent and keeping yourself controlled they are quite good as high skill cap weapons. I use most of the pistols pretty frequently since I rotate through mercs often. My Fragger loadout has a Deagle and I just find it lacking compared to the revolvers I have and use on Skyhammer and Phantom.

The revolvers, when fired like this, are insane. And their headshot damage is great by comparison. They are sort of like the Dreiss where you have to hipfire at a certain rate at medium/long distances or you’ll just miss everything.[/quote]

But if you slow down your firerate the DPS of the gun becomes far lower, so much so that the M9 or the Selbstadt would be better. The balance is bad when most people would prefer to have those two semi-auto pistols for any situation than to have the magnums.

Also, their damage over range is just awful - it drops off very drastically.[/quote]

I’d rather have the big hits personally when going for headshots. And I would disagree about the damage drop over range being awful.

I use the revolve quite a bit in that video and it’s rather effective as you can see. However, I won’t argue with a buff since it would help me :)[/quote]

I just want to have dealier revolvers, weapons that actualy need 2-3 shots to kill a merc, not 4-5.

And im already a broken record about balance but:

DE. 50
Mag Size 8 (from 7)
Damage 30 (from 20)
Rof 250 (from 360)

Simeon .357
Damage 35 (from 25)
Rof 216 (from 300)

Smjüth & Whetsman
Damage 40 (from 27)
Same Accuracy as the Grandeur.
ROF 186 (from 300)
Reload Speed 2.2s (from 1.9s)
Range 1050/2100 (from 950/1900)

Same dps, but less spammy and more about accuracy.

(of cource the normal pistols need buff too, because they are kinda sh#t outside m9)


(RyePanda) #9

[quote=“omegaskorpion;83015”]
And im already a broken record about balance but:

DE. 50
Mag Size 8 (from 7)
Damage 30 (from 20)
Rof 250 (from 360)

Simeon .357
Damage 35 (from 25)
Rof 216 (from 300)

Smjüth & Whetsman
Damage 40 (from 27)
Same Accuracy as the Grandeur.
ROF 186 (from 300)
Reload Speed 2.2s (from 1.9s)
Range 1050/2100 (from 950/1900)

Same dps, but less spammy and more about accuracy.

(of cource the normal pistols need buff too, because they are kinda sh#t outside m9)[/quote]

40 damage for a pistol is insane. Secondaries are for when you have an empty mag in your primary, or if you have a shotty they can be used for mid range. They should never be able to one-shot a merc.


(ProfPlump) #10

[quote=“RyePanda;83067”][quote=“omegaskorpion;83015”]
And im already a broken record about balance but:

DE. 50
Mag Size 8 (from 7)
Damage 30 (from 20)
Rof 250 (from 360)

Simeon .357
Damage 35 (from 25)
Rof 216 (from 300)

Smjüth & Whetsman
Damage 40 (from 27)
Same Accuracy as the Grandeur.
ROF 186 (from 300)
Reload Speed 2.2s (from 1.9s)
Range 1050/2100 (from 950/1900)

Same dps, but less spammy and more about accuracy.

(of cource the normal pistols need buff too, because they are kinda sh#t outside m9)[/quote]

40 damage for a pistol is insane. Secondaries are for when you have an empty mag in your primary, or if you have a shotty they can be used for mid range. They should never be able to one-shot a merc.[/quote]

I agree that the firerate of 186 is a bit too high for a sidearm that does 40 damage per bullet (considering that the PDP only has a firerate of 150), but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a secondary being able to 1 shot a low-health merc as long as the firerate is substantially nerfed to balance the damage buff.\

But what, in your opinion, is wrong with having a 1 shot headshot kill potential for the sidearm, considering that it would still only 1 shot the 2 weakest mercs in the game?


(omegaskorpion) #11

[quote=“ProfPlump;83103”][quote=“RyePanda;83067”][quote=“omegaskorpion;83015”]
And im already a broken record about balance but:

DE. 50
Mag Size 8 (from 7)
Damage 30 (from 20)
Rof 250 (from 360)

Simeon .357
Damage 35 (from 25)
Rof 216 (from 300)

Smjüth & Whetsman
Damage 40 (from 27)
Same Accuracy as the Grandeur.
ROF 186 (from 300)
Reload Speed 2.2s (from 1.9s)
Range 1050/2100 (from 950/1900)

Same dps, but less spammy and more about accuracy.

(of cource the normal pistols need buff too, because they are kinda sh#t outside m9)[/quote]

40 damage for a pistol is insane. Secondaries are for when you have an empty mag in your primary, or if you have a shotty they can be used for mid range. They should never be able to one-shot a merc.[/quote]

I agree that the firerate of 186 is a bit too high for a sidearm that does 40 damage per bullet (considering that the PDP only has a firerate of 150), but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a secondary being able to 1 shot a low-health merc as long as the firerate is substantially nerfed to balance the damage buff.\

But what, in your opinion, is wrong with having a 1 shot headshot kill potential for the sidearm, considering that it would still only 1 shot the 2 weakest mercs in the game?[/quote]

Actualy the PDP has rof of 180 and dps of 140 while Grandeur has 150 dps and 225 rof (and 40 damage)

My suggested stats have 125 dps with both simeon and S&W.
(current S&W has 135 dps)

My stats simply make them hard use hand cannons. Hard to use but rewarding. (since the accuracy still will be bad)


(ProfPlump) #12

[quote=“omegaskorpion;83232”][quote=“ProfPlump;83103”][quote=“RyePanda;83067”][quote=“omegaskorpion;83015”]
And im already a broken record about balance but:

DE. 50
Mag Size 8 (from 7)
Damage 30 (from 20)
Rof 250 (from 360)

Simeon .357
Damage 35 (from 25)
Rof 216 (from 300)

Smjüth & Whetsman
Damage 40 (from 27)
Same Accuracy as the Grandeur.
ROF 186 (from 300)
Reload Speed 2.2s (from 1.9s)
Range 1050/2100 (from 950/1900)

Same dps, but less spammy and more about accuracy.

(of cource the normal pistols need buff too, because they are kinda sh#t outside m9)[/quote]

40 damage for a pistol is insane. Secondaries are for when you have an empty mag in your primary, or if you have a shotty they can be used for mid range. They should never be able to one-shot a merc.[/quote]

I agree that the firerate of 186 is a bit too high for a sidearm that does 40 damage per bullet (considering that the PDP only has a firerate of 150), but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a secondary being able to 1 shot a low-health merc as long as the firerate is substantially nerfed to balance the damage buff.\

But what, in your opinion, is wrong with having a 1 shot headshot kill potential for the sidearm, considering that it would still only 1 shot the 2 weakest mercs in the game?[/quote]

Actualy the PDP has rof of 180 and dps of 140 while Grandeur has 150 dps and 225 rof (and 40 damage)

My suggested stats have 125 dps with both simeon and S&W.
(current S&W has 135 dps)

My stats simply make them hard use hand cannons. Hard to use but rewarding. (since the accuracy still will be bad)
[/quote]

Whoops, my bad on the PDP stats there.


(BananaSlug) #13

this is secondary weapon but i think buffing them would be cool idea :slight_smile:


(CCP115) #14

Buff secondaries as much as they like.
I just think that Primaries should remain superior all the time, and secondaries should remain a backup tool for when you run out of ammo or something.

Remember back when melee Proxy was viable? I don’t want revolver Fragger to become a thing.


(ProfPlump) #15

[quote=“CCP115;83416”]Buff secondaries as much as they like.
I just think that Primaries should remain superior all the time, and secondaries should remain a backup tool for when you run out of ammo or something.

Remember back when melee Proxy was viable? I don’t want revolver Fragger to become a thing.[/quote]

As long as they don’t put the damage on the magnums past 50 (obviously while nerfing the firerate at an exact opposite rate), then they wouldn’t be overpowered. Trying to headshot Proxies, Phoenixes and Auras is not easy with a sniper rifle, let alone with a magnum with bad sights.


(Guziol) #16

I love revolvers and i agree with either increasing hip fire accuracy or dealing with that atrocious visual kick in ADS. Id rather have the latter maintaining the theme of powerfull longer range pistols but id take anything.