loadout cards are really silly

(Rimmorn) #21

not sure what you mean, every FPS ever has had some kind of skill/ability progression, starting with Wolf 3D, it’s progression or $$$$$$$, I prefer progression

methinks you either haven’t played or got your butt handed to you upon joining[/quote]

I believe the issue here is with something you actually want to use being locked until you reach X. Predefined unlock path sucks because you get tons of stuff you don’t want and wont use before that one gun/part you actually want (CoD is a great example here). They should do with guns/perks the same as they did with unlocking mercs, gun/perk X for merc Y costs Z, get that many coins and you can use it. No level restrictions etc, you’ve spent X time playing our game and keeping it alive, choose your reward.

(Nail) #22

earned coins seem to let you unlock what you want, we’ll see when the Store opens

(MissMurder) #23

[quote=“phaZon;1160”]
again i probably just wasted 5 minutes of my life because this game is probably too far in development for any significant input like this to matter to the developers[/quote]

Your (appreciated) feedback does certainly matter. We are still working on the game as it’s not a finished product. There is a lot more content/features/tweaking that are in the works.

(INF3RN0) #24

[quote=“MissMurder;5216”][quote=“phaZon;1160”]
again i probably just wasted 5 minutes of my life because this game is probably too far in development for any significant input like this to matter to the developers[/quote]

Your (appreciated) feedback does certainly matter. We are still working on the game as it’s not a finished product. There is a lot more content/features/tweaking that are in the works. [/quote]

This is the one thing that will take people time to get used to. The idea of a development team and publisher actually caring about their community and the long term success of a game, rather than just squeezing a game by the throat until as much $$$ as quckly as possible can be made is not common place unfortunately. That’s why I think there’s even more money to be made here because I’ve never spent a penny in F2P games because of how selfish they were, but as long as this keeps up I’ll definitely be showing my support via the in game store :slight_smile:

(balu) #25

Some guns are 100% better than other guns which is extremely sad. I hate pay2win and also i hate luck2win (luck as in the luck of getting the right loadoutcard in the box)
I dont mind paying money to unlock mercs, while u can also grind to unlock them. As long as every1 has the same power with the same merc.

(Litego) #26

[quote=“balu;5250”]Some guns are 100% better than other guns which is extremely sad. I hate pay2win and also i hate luck2win (luck as in the luck of getting the right loadoutcard in the box)
I dont mind paying money to unlock mercs, while u can also grind to unlock them. As long as every1 has the same power with the same merc.[/quote]
I haven’t seen the pay2win yet, but maybe I just haven’t played enough. However I do agree, all the mercs and loadouts should be equal in power, but differ in playstyle and situational usefulness.

(Glot) #27

i do not like loadout cards as they are now.

  1. i do not like that weapons are mixed with certain skill boosts.
  2. some perks realy deserve to be in game by default. like fast reload and fast weapon change (i realy like fast pace). or like killing a medic gives you little medpack, or killing a Fops gives you ammopack. and some other to even more extent
  3. a load out card should be more role-oriented. be more support, or be more medic, or be more objective-oriented or be more soldier and just kill everyone.

so to sum it up

  • less cards, especially get rid of useless ones
  • cards should have more specialisation. if i do not use cards at all i should be a common medic or a common engineer. but with cards a can become more mines but less repair. or visa versa faster repair, but less mines, etc
  • no guns in cards (i want to choose a gun myself when i set up a merc: 2-3 guns for every merc)
  • some perks should go straight into the default game
(Dwu) #28

[quote=“balu;5250”]Some guns are 100% better than other guns which is extremely sad. I hate pay2win and also i hate luck2win (luck as in the luck of getting the right loadoutcard in the box)
I dont mind paying money to unlock mercs, while u can also grind to unlock them. As long as every1 has the same power with the same merc.[/quote]

Interesting opinion, Ive played every single merc and im surprised how balanced the weapons currently are ? Only things that have bothered me are the 1 shot-shotguns and naders grenade launcher really.

On the matter of the loadout cards, I think you should let people compose their own loadout card ie. choose the weapon in limits of what weapons the mercenary can use and choose their own set of augments. Then sell cosmetics like different skins for the mercenary and have wider variety of those skins instead of the current system.
This way you would be sacrificing the gameplay elements least while monetizing.

There are other means to making money out of a game such as this, like valve has done with their tournaments in dota2 for example.

(phaZon) #29

[quote=“MissMurder;5216”][quote=“phaZon;1160”]
again i probably just wasted 5 minutes of my life because this game is probably too far in development for any significant input like this to matter to the developers[/quote]

Your (appreciated) feedback does certainly matter. We are still working on the game as it’s not a finished product. There is a lot more content/features/tweaking that are in the works. [/quote]

awesome to hear that, i’m not entirely sure how committed you guys are into the whole loadout cards option but i’d love to see if you guys can whip up a prototype (if it doesn’t kill development resources) of an alternative progression system for each character that allows for a bit more customization (if the idea of a moba is your target for comparison, think of loadouts as preset masteries and rune pages in LoL, it’s leaving something to be desired) and get some feedback on it…

or maybe at least have the option to “combine” loadout cards; take two cards, take whatever perks/guns you prefer from both to form a new card which ultimately destroys the two other cards used to make the new one

(sequesteredDaisy) #30

CSGO does this stuff right, hopefully we will get steam market for these

(MissMurder) #31

@INF3RN0 I agree and thank you :blush: We have such an awesome community too.

@phaZon We are pretty committed to the Loadout system honestly. But that doesn’t mean we can’t add separate things like skins and what not in the future. As for the “crafting” aspect that is something that we don’t have info on just yet. Hopefully soon though!

(phaZon) #32

[quote=“MissMurder;5293”]@INF3RN0 I agree and thank you :blush: We have such an awesome community too.

@phaZon We are pretty committed to the Loadout system honestly. But that doesn’t mean we can’t add separate things like skins and what not in the future. As for the “crafting” aspect that is something that we don’t have info on just yet. Hopefully soon though![/quote]

yeah i know, that’s why i sorta said i don’t think something this substantial this late in the development cycle is gonna be changed…but one can dream :wink:

gotchya on the crafting, it might remedy some of the inherent flaws with the current system but, still, there’s something to be desired

at the very least, can you confrim/deny the integration with steam inventory? and will skins be separate from loadouts?

(bistrePecan) #33

I would like to see weapons removed from loadout cards, with those as separate unlocks. Leave the loadout cards as the predefined augment selections with free choice of whatever weapons you’ve unlocked, if you have to unlock them at all.

(INF3RN0) #34

I’ve said it many times throughout the CBT, but drops should be separated into merc/skins, weapon/skin sets, perk sets. This way you can combine what you need to compliment your play style without obstruction or confusion.

(Vyzx) #35

[quote=“Litego;5133”]
I don’t know how I feel about the loadout system in general. I think I would prefer to just get weapon and item drops individually and mix and match them as I please. [/quote]

that would be a hell to balance, at least with loadout cards there is hope it will be balanced with clear pros/cons.

but the system definitely needs work. first and foremost you should be able to switch them on respawn given the current situation (while mercs are fixed).

considering it’s gonna be f2p, the RNG will hit somewhere. I just hope it won’t be an endless crate grind in the vain hope getting the card you actually want.
trading might be overkill, but let us at least deconstruct/craft cards with p2notgrind monetization instead of selling chests directly and having to resort to RNG only.

(potty1) #36

I would like to see what hearthstone kinda uses where you can turn cards into “dust” From that dust you can create new cards. So you can pick any loadout but with a basic skin or something.

The rare cards / Foil cards / Obsidian cards are rare for the aesthetics only. They do not in any way change game play!

(At least this would be ideal in my eyes)

(Cyphre) #37

Really the only part about the cards I’m not fond of, beyond being completely different sets, is how many there are. There isn’t a clear, visual way to separate them beyond seeing a different weapon type in the first slot. They aren’t like named classes or subclasses to utilize, just different sets of equipment and the like. Maybe it’s just a UI thing, but none of it seems at all clear at first glance.

(Jinuaja) #38

I like whole idea of trying out something new, but the way the cards are set up now sets limits on what you can have in your load out. They have main weapons, and secondary. Hopefully different kinds of grenades for every class like shock, or smoke, sticky , and explosive nuke grenade that causes radiation cloud or something. My point is that they should have maybe a little bit more of your choice. By making seperate load out cards for the Main, secondary ( or pistol), Melee, and hopefully grenades for every class.

(Reddeadcap) #39

We’d really just have to wait for splash damage to make a card to cover every possible combination, between a primary weapon, secondary weapon, melee (Do the two knives and bat even really do any difference?) and passive abilities, My only issue would be the idea of trading cards with other players and hope that skins/clothing designs and weapon looks aren’t really going to be completely tied to any card loadout, we’ll just have to wait and see and hope for the best, I’m really interested to see what the crafting system MissMurder is talking about will be like.

(DB Genome editor) #40

[left]We’ll never get loadouts cards for all the possible combinations, there are literally tens of thousands of them.

IMO, for loadouts to work they either have to be build piece by piece like INF3RN0 said above or create sub-classes of the merc. The first approach requires a pretty good balance of all the pros and cons of each weapons and augments to avoid optimal builds. The second approach is kind of what we have now, but with a clear goal behind each loadout that pushes the merc playstyle a little bit further in a given direction. For instance, if we take Proxy, we could have the following types of loadouts:

  • Objective Monkey: Weaker weapon loadout, augments that improve survivability and objective completion time

  • Glass Cannon: Stronger weapon loadout, augments that improve mobility but make her more brittle

  • Road Block: Average weapon loadout, augments that improve her mines (faster cooldown, larger AOE, whatever)

For those who’ve played Borderlands, I’m thinking about loadouts shifting a merc’s gameplay in a consistent manner like a selecting a different skill tree for a character does in that game, instead of combining things in a seemingly random manner.

Balancing complete packages is much easier than balancing all the building blocks, you can give them meaningful names that highlight their overall role shift (making them easier to pick out of your inventory) , and you could even bind skins to them that would reflect that shift as well (e.g. a tankier loadout for any merc could come with the digital urban camo, while all mobility-focused loadouts could have the forest camo one, etc…). The earlier skin sets had corporate names (Edge, Grid, ecDecon, etc…) so this could easily translate into corporate operational styles (Edge mercs are more heavily armored but slower, Hunter mercs are better at stealth / recon, etc…).

TL,DR: Loadouts should either be fully-customizable or offer clear sub-variants of the merc archetypes, not just a random combination of weapons, augments and skins. [/left]