Loadout card Stats: Accuracy and Stability

(Gi.Am) #1

So I was comparing the stats of several loadoutcards (by taking screenshots and switching between them).
Most stats seem to check out fine with the data we already have (Damage, Rate of fire, Range, Mobility).

Then I came to accuracy and stability two categories that seemed clear enough. Accuracy is how close you hit to your crosshair and stability is spread and recoil over time, right. Right? what threw me of were the shotguns according to the loadouts they are the most accurate and stable things in this game only bested by the sniperrifles. even weirder the Ahluhd is the worst and the remburg is the best in terms of both accuracy and stability? Something is off. So I decided to jump into a testing map (Dome) looked for a nice wall (near midrange) and did some shooting. Here are my findings.

Method: I shot every weapon without stabilizing them till they had to reload, both hip and ADS. Semi’s and bolts where shot as fast as I could click. I rated the accuracy and stability for different weapon groups (except secondary snipers and melee) qualitative not in hard numbers (based on the loadout cards).

Definition: horizontal spread / recoil = spread ; vertical recoil = climb.

Assaultrifles:

Accuracy / stability rating
M4 2 / 5
Timik 3 / 2
Br16 4 / 3
Stark 4 / 3
Dreiss 5 / 1
K121 1 / 4

Assault Comparsion

Things to notice. The Timik despite the better stability rating has larger climb but seems to have less spread.
The burstrifles are very accurate both hip and ADS strangely the stark has more spread in hipfire despite being the longrange option and them both having the same loadout stats. Dreiss and K-121 only short bursts when hipfiring ADS has huge climbs but almost zero spread. Strange enough the dreiss is the least accurate of the group but has the best stability. Not sure if the lmg has to be in its own group but if the bars are global the k-121 would be the most accurate on paper.

SMG:

Accuracy / stability rating

SMG9 2 / 3
Crotzni 4 / 1
Kek 3 / 5
Hoch 1 / 2
Blish 5 / 4

SMG Comparsion

Things to notice. the SMG9 seems to have a fair amount of spread while the crotzni has more climb. Again strange the Crotzni has the best stability rating. The Blishlock seems to start out pretty accurate but goes to town quickly, bursts advised.

Shotguns

Accuracy / stability rating

Remburg 1 / 1
Hollund 2 / 2
Ahnuhld 3 / 3

Shotgun Comparsion

Things to notice. To be honest there is not much they look fairly similar except the spread of the ahnuhld which shows clearly why it is the midrange shotgun, why it has the lowest accuracy rating I don’t get. Also ADS on shotguns seems rather pointless.

Bonus rounds

Sniper

Sniper comparsion

Just for fun. But its clear if you score a no scope you are either standing right in front of someone or are one lucky bastard.

Movement

Stance Comparsion

Ok what you see here is the SMG 9 and the Crotzni. Both fired in crouch © standing (s) and moving (w) (backwards and strafing to the right at the same time). Notice that the SMG 9 seems to hold it a little bit better together than the Crotzni.

So what does this all mean. Well I’m not sure. The longer I stare at it the less sense it makes.

I do have a weird theory tho. Stability and Accuracy might only reflect hipfiring and is inverted. To explain lets assume the accuracy and stability start at 100% (i.e perfect) and you deduct from there it might be that the values that generate the loadoutcards are actually the deduction. Result would be that the Dreiss is the most accurate but least stable, the k-121 would become the least accurate and pretty stable. Hipfiring only because its the only way to explain the Sniperifles they are the least accurate hipfired. Stability could also mean the gun is more affected by stance if we look at the smg9 / crotzni the crotzni being the least stable (inverted) and not holding up so good while moving compared to the SMG 9.
However that theory gets broken pretty hard looking at the Hochfire since it would turn frm the most accurate and stable into the worst ( and it isn’t ).

So alot Text for nothing. I guess what we can take from this excercise is that the weapons perform pretty similiar for the first couple shots some fall apart after that and need a firing break. ADS trades spread for climb. Stances do give more accuracy. Don’t trust the Loadoutcards (until a Dev explained them).

(Szakalot) #2

didn’t go through your analysis yet but :

accuracy - where your bullets go relative to the dot on the screen. Low accuracy - high spread of bullets - they don’t go where you are pointing

stability - how much recoil (screen movement) you have when firing weapons

(Gi.Am) #3

Thats what I thought first too (after all thats how it is normaly handled) but it doesn’t check out. Example the Dreiss, has the highest stability but has massive recoil and after a couple of shots huge spread.

Something is wrong either the Loadout cards show wrong stats or accuracy and stability tracks something different / more complex.

(Szakalot) #4

[quote=“Gi.Am;28980”]Thats what I thought first too (after all thats how it is normaly handled) but it doesn’t check out. Example the Dreiss, has the highest stability but has massive recoil and after a couple of shots huge spread.

Something is wrong either the Loadout cards show wrong stats or accuracy and stability tracks something different / more complex.[/quote]

Dreiss doesnt really recoil so much when hipfired. I’d skip ADS behaviour of the weapon completely, as I don’t think its well explained in the stats we have. It has poor accuracy which would reflect huge spread after a couple of shots.

http://postimg.org/image/p5avzf98n/full/

(Gi.Am) #5

You are kinda right and kinda not.
I did some more testing and I think I have the system more or less figured out (and what I can’t explain seems to be hand tweaks by the Dev).

There are actually 3 different Stats in effect.

Recoil (aka vertical climb)
Every weapon has a constant vertical climb. This is roughly based on weapon damage but there seems to be some handtweaking going on blishlok less kick, smg-9 and m4 less kick than crotzni and timik.

Accuracy (Loadoutcard)
Pretty much what we suspected, how much bloom a weapon has overtime. Notice the bloom decreases fairly quickly. For example the Burstrifles stay accurate because the bloom gets almost completly reseted between shots (unlike the Dreiss).

Stability
Stability adds randomness to the constant recoil therefore a weapon with less stability will have more horizontal variability (zigzags and perceived leaning to a side) and sudden upward and downward jumps between shots.

Some additional notes.

Hipfire vs ADS
Everything above works together in hipfiring. ADS on the other hand removes the accuracy bloom (every shot lands where you aim) and increases the recoil while keeping the stability.
Therefore weapons with good stability are prefered for ADS since they mostly kick straight upwards (which can be easily compensated) while those with poor stability have less predictable recoil patterns.

Sniperrifles
Sniperrifles seem to be mostly handtweaked the accuracy is set to 100% despite the fact that the shots are all over the place hipfired.

Shotguns
Shotguns have a fixed pattern (starshaped) that simply spreads with distance. They stay pretty accurate and stable no matter what and thats why they have so high ratings in the loadout (wish they would change that its counter intuitiv to have the shotties be more accurate then the ARs also it suggests that the ahluhd is less accurate than the other two).

SMG vs AR
SMGs are all more accurate than the ARs. While the ARs have more stability over the SMGs. Also ARs have as a rule of thumb more recoil than the SMGs. SMGs are easier to shot hipfired and in a spraying manner. ARs overall are more accurate the first couple of shots and easier to control in ADS (tnx. to the Stability).

Stances
Stances (jumping, crouching, walking) affect all 3 stats by making them worse (i.e. walking will increase bloom, stability and recoil compared to standing still). wether that is worth the decrease in mobility is your decision.

Blishlok
The Blishlok has the lowest accuracy and second worst stability of all SMGs. not only making prolonged firing a bad idea but also making ADS harder by having very unpredictable recoil patterns. I recommend only shooting it in short bursts (or taking something else).

SMG-9 vs Crotzni
SMG-9 has better accuracy and less recoil while the Crotzni has better stability (also higher ROF). the SMG-9 can be sprayed for longer before it brakes down, also the low recoil makes it easier to hold it level. On the other hand the bad stability makes it swim quite a bit. The Crotzni excels in short bursts if compensated for recoil allowing it to land its first couple shots in the same place (a head presumably).

M4 vs Timik is the same just with ARs M4 easier to spray Timik better to ADS and burst

Dreiss
pretty much Crotzni and Timik but more pronounced if you hipfire never shot more than 4 in a row but ADS recoil is pretty much a constant vertical line, easy to control.

Ok thats it I think. It is propably not 100% what is going on behind the scene, but atleast for me it is explaining most effects I see, both ingame and in a semi controlled testing. Hope it helps understanding the loadoutcards ratings and to better argue for this or that weapon.

(Eox) #6

The Blishlok should really get a STRONG accuracy buff at least. The gun cumulates very bad cons, other smgs are far more interesting.

(Gi.Am) #7

Not sure about that. On one hand I agree the cons the blishlok has (low accuracy, high recoil, low stability, low ROF) far outweights its pros (more damage than the ARs per bullet).
On the other hand from a logical and gamefeel point of view such a high damage weapon in such a small frame should be hard to control.
Buffing the accuracy could be nice but it seems to me that more people have problems with the poor stability and high recoil since the bad accuracy only comes into play around maybe the 5-10 shot (considering the low ROF most propably die before it comes to that).

However if I had to choose I would go that way aswell. Increasing the accuarcy towards the amount the crotzni has (so more of a slightly buff). And see if this improves things, considering that you still have to work hard to counteract the erratic recoil (i.e. it takes skill to handle the blishlok).

Overall in that regards the Blish should be pretty much the Dreiss of the SMG class. Good in the hands of someone who can handle the kicks, but nothing for people who just want something to spray bullets with ease.

(KangaJoo) #8

[quote=“Gi.Am;29724”]Not sure about that. On one hand I agree the cons the blishlok has (low accuracy, high recoil, low stability, low ROF) far outweights its pros (more damage than the ARs per bullet).
On the other hand from a logical and gamefeel point of view such a high damage weapon in such a small frame should be hard to control.
Buffing the accuracy could be nice but it seems to me that more people have problems with the poor stability and high recoil since the bad accuracy only comes into play around maybe the 5-10 shot (considering the low ROF most propably die before it comes to that).

However if I had to choose I would go that way aswell. Increasing the accuarcy towards the amount the crotzni has (so more of a slightly buff). And see if this improves things, considering that you still have to work hard to counteract the erratic recoil (i.e. it takes skill to handle the blishlok).

Overall in that regards the Blish should be pretty much the Dreiss of the SMG class. Good in the hands of someone who can handle the kicks, but nothing for people who just want something to spray bullets with ease.[/quote]

Eratic recoil doesn’t take skill to control because it’s unpredictable. This is why guns with low stability are inherently worse at range than guns with high stability regardless of player skill. Making the vertical recoil stronger and making it go up and to the left or right rather than straight up would make it more skill based, but at the end of the day the vertical recoil in this game is practically non-existent for all weapons. The gunplay’s depth comes from being able to consistently track heads, not from spray control.

(Gi.Am) #9

Vertical recoil non existent? you might wanna look at the smg and assault comparison images in the first post. Yes the game has far less vertical recoil than “realistic military shooter XY” but it is there and you have to compensate for it if you want more than your first couple shots to hit a target.

Eratic recoil is unpredicable and therefore can’t be compensated by muscle memory true. But you can compensate for it after every shot especially on a slow ROF weapon like the blishlok (the same as asniper who has to reallign). And that was my point there, if hypotethical the blishlok would get 100% accuracy (no random spread increase) it would be trivial for a good player to center out the random recoil inbetween every shot. Which is the direction the Blish was before the nerf.

(watsyurdeal) #10

Seems like to me accuracy and stability don’t do much…

That’s really disappointing, I feel like I’d use certain guns more over others if they had better accuracy and spread compared to the guns with higher damage. Also, I noticed that the recoil is pretty much random on automatic weapons, unlike in Counter Strike where it always go in the same direction when you fire.

I really hope Dirty Bomb makes some changes for that route, since it’d make the game more consistent.

(Gi.Am) #11

The differences are there (pick a M4 vs a Timik for example), I agree they are subtile compared to other shooters, but on the other hand the damage differental isn’t that big either. The Blishlok has damage of 18 (highest full auto) and the empire has 8 (tolen and hochfire 9) while that is a bit more than twice, it doesn’t factor in firerate. If you compare DPS tho you end up with 134,9 for the K121 (I omit the minigun and thunders lmg) and 109,8 for the Tolen MP.
If we Cut secondaries we would get 120 for the blishlok.
Thats a meager 20 -15 Hp difference over a full second of shooting. Thats quite close if you consider that this are the full auto extrema and that the others (and some of the semi and melee weapons) fall inbetween.

(watsyurdeal) #12

Well damage and rof do matter quite a bit, but they assume every shot is landing usually. And that’s based on the accuracy of the gun, and the player.

I would say a gun that has the best balance of accuracy and damage would be the best, but honestly the only thing I can think of that has that is the M4. As long as you aim well that is pretty much the best gun in every scenario.

(Gi.Am) #13

Well thats kinda my point a 20-15 HP advantage is so little that is easily compensated by you miss aiming or a target dodging better.
Imo the weapon stats are all so close together that it mostly comes down to personal preferences.

Agreed while I personaly don’t like it. The M4 is a overall good package imo.

(watsyurdeal) #14

With the M4 and Timik, personally I find I tap fire with the M4 a lot, so I think the Timik should be better for spraying down range, so maybe lower the damage and up the rate of fire more?

The SMGs are a bit trickier, since not every merc has access to the same weapons. But if I had to ponder, between the SMG 9 and Crotizini, I think the SMG 9 should be the sprayer here. Maybe slightly less damage in exchange for better accuracy and stability?

It’s just hard to figure all that out, since we gotta look at the mercs who start with what weapons, and what the alternatives can offer them.

Actually…I wonder if we swapped the damage and RoF of the SMG 9 and Timik, the Timik might actually be great like that, and the SMG 9 would have it’s own place against the Cro.

(Gwarh) #15

Wait what? Crouching decreases accuracy? Crouching in the RL at least, increases accuracy as it generally places you in a more stable (braced) firing position.

And for the Blishock, I wish it worked more as a med/long range SMG. I guess it kinda is but it still feels so lackluster when I use it. I’d rather take any other weapon over it for medium ranged or close in work.

(Gi.Am) #16

Yeah reading that sentence now I realize that it is a bit unclear. I ment ofcourse that crouching is the best when it comes to accuracy/recoil/stability and becomes worse from there in the usual manner (jumping the worst). However the effect is not that pronounced compaired to other games so most of the time it doesn’t make up for the decrease in mobility (especially important for new players, since many crouch way too much).

Blishlok I would say that stats wise is indeed a good candidate for longrange. Only thing that holds it back is the big ass ADS dot.

SMG-9/Crotzni - M4/Timik. I wouldn’t want to see too much tampering with them to be honest. I like the SMG-9 and would be pissed if it would suddenly work different.

The smg-9 and M4 are the low blooming low recoil but low stability weapons.
The crotzni and timik are the high blooming high recoil high stability high ROF weapons.
(keep in mind that ARs are overal more stable than the SMGs, who have all less bloom than the ARs).

That peering makes sense imo the M4 and SMG-9 by the look of it are both based on the AR-15 platform. While Crotzni and the Timik both belong to the AK family so its logical that they feel similar.

(watsyurdeal) #17

True but I feel like the current situation is, the Timik is outclassed by the M4, and the SMG 9 is outclassed by the Crotzini.

While they do have some strengths…I feel like they need to be pushed a bit, to make them more noticeable, and therefore a definite feel and advantage over the other guns.

I can’t say the same thing about the KEK, Blishok, or Hochfir, but I can def say the SMG 9, while I get and see where you are coming from, I feel like it needs a buff to let it’s true place in the game shine. Same with the Timik vs the M4.