List of priorities

(immenseWalnut) #41

[quote=“Amerika;92716”]Exedore, the lead designer of the game, has said where the changes come from. They are in full control. You can make believe otherwise but it’s just make believe. You’re making things up to justify your anger and remove responsibility from the people who are responsible. And a lot of your anger is based on things that barely changed (gun accuracy nerfs) while ignoring things that actually matter (viewkick and aimpunch).

So yes, I believe that people should ask questions and learn the truth rather than make up a truth that fits your worldview. I didn’t tell people to believe what I said. I asked them to ask questions and use their own brain instead of make up conspiracy theories that don’t fit the known facts.

Trying to twist a situation to fit a view isn’t the same thing as learning information and formulating an opinion. It’s fiction, not fact until you prove it.[/quote]

Wow, did I really come across as being angry? I really need to use more smiley faces :slight_smile:

EDIT: You didn’t answer my question though, which would you prefer if the game does die, current weapon balance, or a reversion to the more precise weapons we used to have?

(immenseWalnut) #42

Oh well, if he said it, then it must be true :slight_smile:

Dear Exedore

You and your team exemplify game design, I really do wish more game designers were as transparent and truthful as you are mate :slight_smile:

Just out of curiosity though, what role DOES Nexon play in your development? Free reign to do what you want? It must be liberating having so much freedom to choose your own direction. I envy you.

And I highly approve of your NLP skills, to have Amerika so convinced. Actually, maybe not, I get the feeling he wants to believe you so much he refuses to even consider the possibility that you might be telling a porkie. Still though, well played man :slight_smile:

Sincerely

ImmenseWalnut

‘To anyone that wonders why self-delusion is such a pervasive force in today’s society, I suggest you go and google Wizard’s First Rule. Once you understand that rule in all of its not-so-subtle depth, you will understand why fanboys act the way they do.’

ImmenseWalnut, Oct 2015.

(Amerika) #43

So, my opinion is based off of what the people who actually make the game has said and there isn’t a logical reason to lie and of course I’ve asked other sources who know about such things. What do you base your opinion on? Where is your intelligence coming from? Can you explain any of that for me? Is it just a hunch? A gut feeling maybe? Let us figure out where you’re coming from so we can understand.

(immenseWalnut) #44

This is why I am struggling to take you seriously. There is a VERY logical reason to lie. Nexon own the rights to Dirty Bomb, they bought it from Splash Damage, and in doing so they formulated a contract. Nexon OWN Dirty Bomb, Splash Damage may have been the team that originally conceived the game, and brought it to life, but the moment they sold it to a publisher they lost any say in how to continue development for it (and that contract will decide how long they will continue development for it). Sure, they can state their case, but the final say will rest with Nexon.

Now here is a point we might be able to agree on. Nexon wont be interested in the day-to-day details or even give a crap about the direction of the game. Their entire influence will be based around the money-making element of the game. So yes, SD will have a small amount of power to make their own decisions and choose their own direction, BUT they will need a green light from Nexon before they are allowed to do so.

Once that contract was signed, and money was transferred, it became legally binding, do you honestly really believe that the lead developer can suddenly just decide which direction he wants to take the game, regardless of what Nexon wants? That would open them up to a lawsuit that would put them out of business.

(Lumi) #45

@immenseWalnut

About your initial reply to this thread, you’re right that this game needs both bug fixes and content, but this should have happened at a proportional rate before bugs started piling up. The recent removal of the secondary objectives missions hint at an incapacity to cope with bugs and therefore I assumed as a premise of this thread, that SD has lost the capacity to do both bug fixes and content update at the same time. Leading me to emphasise the bug fixing part, at least for a while, in order to reach a state in which they can continue with the simultaneous bug fixing and content addition that they should do, whitout being overwhelmed.

Now regarding the second half of that reply, I must wonder when was the last time you actually played? Weapons started out with aimpunch, heavy recoil and spread. All of it as random as it can be. which was something I always wanted gone. The randomness, not the recoil, nor aimpunch nor spread. Yet SD did the exact opposite, kept the randomness and removed basically anything that skilled players had to struggle with. Now almost every weapon is a dead on laser (except for the blishlock) and anyone with a bit of skill can be dead on the target.

While some might argue it added more skill to the game, because it’s aim above pain, I must disagree, because these changes added skill only in 1vs1. Add in a second player and then there is no skill involved. It’s so easy to get at least a partial amount of your clip’s bullets onto your enemy that in a situation in which more than one player are shooting a single one, there is no chance for the lone player.

So imo, it’s not because weapons suck that there is no skill involved. It’s because there is no need for weapon control that skill is gone. Randomness should have gone out the window and spread and recoil should have stayed. The only weapon that really needed a nerf and got it was the Dreiss, although everyone now wines that it is too weak, which I disagree.

Finally, regarding the Nexon influence, there is no way to know the truth unless we manage to be actually there in the studios 24/7 and see what happens. So, the only conclusion we can make is see what has been changed and how it affects the game. It doesn’t really matter who calls the shots.

To me it seemed the game has gone in a more noob friendly direction, to draw in more players and retaining them with less frustration. While I also noticed a pattern of merc nerf just before it enters a rotation, with a buff right after exiting. Fragger nerf, Flether nerf, Proxy, Nader and Rhino buffs are just the most obvious example. Seems to me that they want the locked mercs to look more appealing, might be just coincidences, but that makes quite a lot of them.

bottom line, lots needs to be changed to retain the current player base while drawing in new players and I’m not paid to figure out exactly what needs to be done and in what order, I may speculate on it though.

(immenseWalnut) #46

[quote=“Lumi;92777”]@immenseWalnut

Now regarding the second half of that reply, I must wonder when was the last time you actually played? Weapons started out with aimpunch, heavy recoil and spread. All of it as random as it can be. which was something I always wanted gone. The randomness, not the recoil, nor aimpunch nor spread. Yet SD did the exact opposite, kept the randomness and removed basically anything that skilled players had to struggle with. Now almost every weapon is a dead on laser (except for the blishlock) and anyone with a bit of skill can be dead on the target. [/quote]

I play as often as I can, but I am playing on a laptop with a very cheap mouse with built in acceleration at the moment. Not played on my man-rig for 4 months (I’m a sailor, on a ship at the moment, but I will be home soon on my baby to play properly).

A large part of what winds me up with the changes, is that I can remember how the weapons I enjoyed using used to operate. I preferred it. Now though, it is just not as much fun.

The very worst one, that I hate with a passion, is Red Eyes stock weapon (I can’t remember its name). I love using the sniper rifle and shock rifle when I play UT, because I know if I get my aim right, I will land a hit.

This isn’t the case with his main weapon. I land a shot against a bad player that stands still, aimed at his head, and it lands. Great right? But then I fire a second shot, at his head (he hasn’t moved at all, he is bad remember?), and my shot misses due to RNG spread, despite my crosshair being squarely over his face.

I shake my head ruefully, thinking to myself ‘what did I expect from a F2P game’. Then I laugh at my own stupidity, log off, and load up UT instead. Then my evening always improves.

The point I was making, is that this game will die at some point (I suspect at the end of this year, but I could be wrong). I want the devs to at least give us a final patch that makes the game FAR more fun for the remaining hardcore players that will still play the game years into the future. If they don’t give me that, then I wont be one of them, and this game will go in the same rubbish bin where I put HAWKEN and Loadout.

(Lumi) #47

@immenseWalnut

The weapon you are talking about, the grandeur, has no RNG to it. It’s straight old school recoil. Heavy on it, yet nothing random about it. Your second hit just lands above the “bad player” as you didn’t compensate for the recoil. Also, the iron sight and actual shot used to be misaligned, they fixed it in a recent patch…

But I see you’re actually against everything that doesn’t let you shoot like a laser. I agree on RNG being bullocks, but recoil is the bare minimum required on any kind of weapon. Hell, right now sniper rifles have zero recoil, totally idiotic imo, but they really don’t know what they want to make out of this game…

(immenseWalnut) #48

[quote=“Lumi;92998”]@immenseWalnut

The weapon you are talking about, the grandeur, has no RNG to it. It’s straight old school recoil. Heavy on it, yet nothing random about it. Your second hit just lands above the “bad player” as you didn’t compensate for the recoil. Also, the iron sight and actual shot used to be misaligned, they fixed it in a recent patch…

But I see you’re actually against everything that doesn’t let you shoot like a laser. I agree on RNG being bullocks, but recoil is the bare minimum required on any kind of weapon. Hell, right now sniper rifles have zero recoil, totally idiotic imo, but they really don’t know what they want to make out of this game…[/quote]

Sorry, but I can’t agree with that. I aim at the head, and I fire, and I land a headshot. I move, re-aim, and fire again the moment my crosshair is over their head again. And it often misses. Bear in mind I am talking about a static target here (not a fast moving Proxxy for example where I could potentially miss).

That is a random match of UT2004 Instagib I recorded a while back, I can aim and land hitscan shots for the most part, and this is against Godlike bots that can do the same to me.

You are right though, I want precision weapons. I would love to see the bullets go exactly where my crosshair is aiming, and if that means the crosshair ‘kicks’ when I am firing (and I have to control the recoil, pulling my mouse downwards etc) then I would love that. But there are many weapons that have random spread, and I really do not like it.

Also, we need more projectile weapons :smiley: Landing a mid air grenade with Nader is really satisfying, but where the hell is the rocket launcher!?!

(MarsRover) #49

Sources for this? You are aware there are different types of publisher contracts other than “sell my soul and my firstborn”?

(immenseWalnut) #50

Oh, just to clarify here, I only rarely use ADS in Dirty Bomb. I use a medium dot crosshair, and I hip fire 99% of the time.

(Amerika) #51

This is why I am struggling to take you seriously. There is a VERY logical reason to lie. Nexon own the rights to Dirty Bomb, they bought it from Splash Damage, and in doing so they formulated a contract. Nexon OWN Dirty Bomb, Splash Damage may have been the team that originally conceived the game, and brought it to life, but the moment they sold it to a publisher they lost any say in how to continue development for it (and that contract will decide how long they will continue development for it). Sure, they can state their case, but the final say will rest with Nexon.

Now here is a point we might be able to agree on. Nexon wont be interested in the day-to-day details or even give a crap about the direction of the game. Their entire influence will be based around the money-making element of the game. So yes, SD will have a small amount of power to make their own decisions and choose their own direction, BUT they will need a green light from Nexon before they are allowed to do so.

Once that contract was signed, and money was transferred, it became legally binding, do you honestly really believe that the lead developer can suddenly just decide which direction he wants to take the game, regardless of what Nexon wants? That would open them up to a lawsuit that would put them out of business.

[/quote]

This does not answer any of my questions. You dodged around them throwing out more complete speculation that is verging on crusading. Post your sources please.

I also question whether or not you even play this game if you think the guns aren’t accurate in regards to the sub-genre the game is a part of. And if you want guns that are as accurate as in UT2k4 or Q3 then you’re playing an entirely wrong genre since almost no game has ever offered that. The only game I can think of that had your bullet go exactly where you crosshair was every single time was Soldier of Fortune 2 (I am sure there are others) but you had to deal with recoil in that game. Urban Terror as well was very similar to SoF2 IIRC. I loved those games but they didn’t play like insta-gib UT/Q3.

Also, most of the videos I’ve seen from the alpha builds did not have Q3 style weapons with no bloom, recoil or sway. Exactly how far back are we talking here that this actually happened and can other people confirm that weapons worked like this a while back?

(Lumi) #52

[quote=“immenseWalnut;93001”]

That is a random match of UT2004 Instagib I recorded a while back, I can aim and land hitscan shots for the most part, and this is against Godlike bots that can do the same to me.

You are right though, I want precision weapons. I would love to see the bullets go exactly where my crosshair is aiming, and if that means the crosshair ‘kicks’ when I am firing (and I have to control the recoil, pulling my mouse downwards etc) then I would love that. But there are many weapons that have random spread, and I really do not like it.

Also, we need more projectile weapons :smiley: Landing a mid air grenade with Nader is really satisfying, but where the hell is the rocket launcher!?![/quote]

I’m sorry to say that you’re wishing DB to be something it will never be. I’d recommend you move on to Shootmania Storm. There is a game that has shooting mechanics exactly how you describe them. Dirty Bomb, has unfortunate RNG, which if we’re lucky might vanish one day, but removing recoil and the rest of spread there is completely is something I cannot see happening. Those mechanics, are what is used to balance varying Damage and RPM values. Otherwise a clear winner weapon will stand out and you end up playing with just that one weapon.

Seriously, give Shootmania Storm a go. It lacks the team based play mechanics, but you got the rockets and you got the dead on aim. I think that would be more along your alley and there is no point in you waiting for DB to change in the direction you’d wish for, because I sincerely doubt it ever will. I doubt that from DB and any other “newbie friendly” FPS out there.

(immenseWalnut) #53

[quote=“Lumi;93022”][quote=“immenseWalnut;93001”]

That is a random match of UT2004 Instagib I recorded a while back, I can aim and land hitscan shots for the most part, and this is against Godlike bots that can do the same to me.

You are right though, I want precision weapons. I would love to see the bullets go exactly where my crosshair is aiming, and if that means the crosshair ‘kicks’ when I am firing (and I have to control the recoil, pulling my mouse downwards etc) then I would love that. But there are many weapons that have random spread, and I really do not like it.

Also, we need more projectile weapons :smiley: Landing a mid air grenade with Nader is really satisfying, but where the hell is the rocket launcher!?![/quote]

I’m sorry to say that you’re wishing DB to be something it will never be. I’d recommend you move on to Shootmania Storm. There is a game that has shooting mechanics exactly how you describe them. Dirty Bomb, has unfortunate RNG, which if we’re lucky might vanish one day, but removing recoil and the rest of spread there is completely is something I cannot see happening. Those mechanics, are what is used to balance varying Damage and RPM values. Otherwise a clear winner weapon will stand out and you end up playing with just that one weapon.

Seriously, give Shootmania Storm a go. It lacks the team based play mechanics, but you got the rockets and you got the dead on aim. I think that would be more along your alley and there is no point in you waiting for DB to change in the direction you’d wish for, because I sincerely doubt it ever will. I doubt that from DB and any other “newbie friendly” FPS out there.[/quote]

Oh, don’t get me wrong, from the moment I downloaded DB I knew it wasn’t going to be the game of my dreams. If I ever get my way with a FPS, the actual gunplay will be a minor part of the game, with abilities, teamwork, communication and co-ordination being the elements that determine winning or losing.

Played Shootmania Storm a while back, it was ok, but lacking in satisfaction, right now I am happily settling into the new UT, and eagerly awaiting Overwatch (the idea of having actual REAL tanks just tickles me the right way for some reason).

I argued some time back, before open beta in fact, that DB was a shallow game, with a skill floor that would be too high for the F2P players that would enter once open beta began, but not deep or enjoyable enough to keep the top end pro players happy.

This game needs more game modes, and far more maps, if it wants to survive, not to mention bug fixes. Which brings me back to your original point, no matter which direction SD decide to take (bug fixes, more content etc) it just wont be enough. They are taking on water, badly, and trying to bail it out with a spoon.

And I highly doubt they are in a position to suddenly give everything the game needs in such a short space of time. Which is why I do think this game will be more or less dead after new year.

And if that happens, all I want is the ‘nerf skilled players’ changes removed, once the noobs are all gone, there will be no reason to keep the weapon changes that have been introduced over the past 4-5 months.

In any case, as much fun as this conversation has been, I can’t really say anything more that I haven’t already said. I would hate to become boring, given that I am such a lively and fun chap :slight_smile:

(Lumi) #54

Well, on that basis, you make a good point. I agree that SD will have hard times keeping the ship from sinking with their stupid approach of trying to please both noobs and skilled players, satisfying therefore nobody. And my original post is exactly about prioritizing the changes to come in order to not make the salvage operation any worse.

Yeah, was interesting to share opinions with you. Hope you get to find that game you’re looking for, although I think overwatch is going to be riding that same line that DB is: half noob / half pro since it’s already established it’ll be at least a free to get game…

(B_Montiel) #55

I don’t like to put people into boxes, but yes, at some point they’ll be forced to make choices. More than anyone else, they’ve hit critical success with a free skilled oriented game, yet not so profitable for them :p… They’ve pretty much all cards in their hands. All they have to do is using them wisely. Accessibility is a shallow problem in my opinion if the game is indisputably good.
Even though it’s a totally different niche, Dota 2 achieved to grab some good moba player fraction by making a game which is definitely not the easiest one to get a grip on in this genre. It’s totally possible.
That’s why I’m convinced that bugfixing, maps improvements/additions and server improvements should be critical in the next few months. Cards and economy are not intrinsic qualities, and they don’t fool anyone for long, even newcomers. If the content and gameplay choices are clear and not hesitating all the time or being delayed to insufferable dates, this provides a good resume for anyone who want to promote the game : “The game has a nervous gameplay, good maps, tons of content, the only thing that needs some improvements is probably the economy, but they’re aware of it”.
I love the game, but when a friend is asking about it, I find myself in a situation where I’m forced to tell the truth about the current lacks which are poisoning it, and this generally ends up “Ask me again in a few more months”.