License?

(fretnoize) #1

It isn’t exactly clear to me what q3map2 can/can’t be used for. Obviously you can use it for non-commercial stuff like quake mods and such. But I’m wondering if it falls under the same type of license that GTKradiant falls under, where you’re not allow to use it for a commercial product, unless you’re infact licensing the technology from Id.

For example, if I was using a different editor that didn’t have this restriction, and I was using an engine seperate from quake technology that could read in BSPs, would q3map2.exe be OK to use, possibly in the content creation of a commercial product?

My confusion lies where in the readme it says “THIS IS NOT AN ID SOFTWARE PRODUCT.”, however I know its based off of Id technology. I’m guessing that the answer would be that it wouldn’t be OK to use commercially, but I’d like to make sure.

(obsidian) #2

If you’re using BSP files for commercial products, then you would still need to license it from id Software. If fact, using any of the in house tools or formats for any commercial product requires some sort of license. id Software has been kind enough to allow the community to create mods and maps for non-profit purposes.

id Software released the Q3Map.exe source code which ydnar has modified to bring you Q3Map2. You are free to use Q3Map2 (or Q3Map) to compile any non commercial maps, but any kind of commercial product requires licensing or at least some kind of permission from the repective authors.

If you’re thinking about using any technology for commercial purposes, you must ask for permission first. The same goes for any kind of game content, ie. textures, shaders, models, etc.

(fretnoize) #3

Thats what I figured, I was just confused because the download for q3map2 didn’t have anything in it saying one way or the other, unlike GTKradiant’s EULA which makes it clear that it can’t be used commercially. Thanks for clarifying.

(Lukin) #4

How about using Q3Map/Q3Map 2 and/or GtkRadiant for other games, which are not using id technology?
For example with -convert option you can make levels (or static meshes) for UT in Radiant. Is it OK?

(Igmon) #5

Who do we contact to gain permission to use the tool and the bsp fileformat for commercial distribution? I looked at the idsoftware site and they don’t seem to have a list of contacts.

(ydnar) #6

Last time I checked it was $5000 to license the tools for a commercial game. Talk to Todd H at Id.

y

(obsidian) #7

$5000? That seems kind of cheap. I think you’re missing a zero. IIRC, it was $50,000 to licence the engine. Plus you can buy John Carmack a coffee and pick his brain for an hour.

(rgoer) #8

I think you misread ydnar’s post. Five thousand to lisence the tools (i.e. Q3Map/Q3Map2, Radiant/GtkRadiant, et al) for a commercial project. Two bajillion to lisence the engine (two completely separate propositions). Say, for example, you were writing your own engine, but you were using a similar-to-q3 bsp format and you liked the GtkRadiant->Q3Map2 workflow… you wouldn’t need to give an arm and a leg for engine lisences, but you will owe Id for the use of their toolkit.

(G0-Gerbil) #9

Last time I checked it was $5000 to license the tools for a commercial game. Talk to Todd H at Id.

I did, and we had the money ready and waiting to go but he never got back to us.
In the end we had to switch to using Max for exporting levels and lightmaps which was a pain, but we simply couldn’t track the man down - a huge disappointment given how much better q3map2 and radiant are for me (since I have used them for years, but still find max an overcomplicated mess).

:frowning:

(Igmon) #10

You can always go for quake 2 map compiler, since it’s GPL (unless I’m mistaken, someone verify me). Just find a freeware quake 2 map editor and you’re all set. You’ll only be missing out on some Quake 3 features such as curved surfaces and shaders.

(G0-Gerbil) #11

It’s not really the editor, it was more q3map2 that we wanted to use, since as we all know, it’s output is incredible :confused:
Ydnar may recall I did some early demos using radiant / q3map2 for a driving game / race course.
Then we had to switch to max, and it took me about 6 months on and off to get to that point in max - now that was painful :frowning:
I can do pretty much what I want in max now (render-wise, I can’t use it for shit to model), but the setback cost us a lot, and since I still map for fun, I’d still be happier using radiant and q3map2 to create our game content, but ID were simply difficult. It could be they didn’t want to grant us the license of course, but then they should have simply said so and saved us months of hassle.
This was around the time the Doom 3 demo was getting ready, so I can understand if they were snowed under, but the license guy??
All in all a disappointment and a pain - we’d have the results how we wanted and we’d have a license from one of the greatest gaming companies ever created.
As a fan I was all excited at the idea of having a proper license. Sad, aren’t I? :slight_smile:

(ratty redemption) #12

imo, its not very professional of id or any other company to simply ignore peoples requests to license their technology… they should have given Gerbil and his colleague a straight forward answer one way or other.

(cis) #13

i wouldnt be surprised if id doesnt want to license the tools so ppl can use q3map2 for whatever they do. it just looks too doom3. i mean lets face it, with q3map2 you can make stuff that on screenshots looks same as doom3, and that “ruins” the illusion of the great doom3 engine. if u look at some q3 based games that are still played quite a bit u can see that even quite obvious grafical glitches totaly get ignored by gamers. so whats the point of licencesing the probably super expensive doom3 engine when there is q3map2 (or so id theorizes). ignoring a customer is quite detestable though imho. must be the quite common “success!” thinking to not be willing to face the consequences of made decisions. if those assumptions are correct then probably next step is that q3 engine won’t be possible to licence anymore at all or it stays at almost same price. if they do that they have to rename to “IDsoft”, hehe

are we lucky that q3map2 is spread over millions of harddrives :wink:

(G0-Gerbil) #14

Well the thing is they advertise the license, and we had the money to get it. We got in touch with the license guy, then after that couldn’t get a responce for love nor money. I don’t think they’ve stopped licensing stuff, and it might have been a break-down in communication but we chased him for weeks via phone and email, and got nothing back :frowning:

(Browser [ICE]) #15

What about the actual license fees for distributing Q3MAP2/Q3MAP with a free map editor made by a commercial company ?

I’m modifying the source code to Discreet Logic’s GMAX Tempest gamepack which edits Quake-3 maps, to improve it and use well known standards. I thought about distributing the release with Q3MAP/Q3MAP2 (current installation is totaly crap as it needs you to unzip the PAK0.PK3 file and install Radiant just for geting Q3MAP, but I’m gona change that)

(Gleeb) #16

In id’s defence, I’ve never had problems talking to them. We had a minor copyright issue/scam to deal with, and Todd H was most helpful at all stages of our investigation.

Also, I forget who it was, but they also got back to me pretty promptly about distribution of ‘Longest Yard’ remakes.

All in all, whenever I’ve needed a reply from id, I’ve got one.

(ratty redemption) #17

@Gleeb, it`s cool that you had success dealing with id, but they should treat all serious developers the same, whether they be known professionals or talented modders.