Level feedback. Version 21216.

(iwound) #1

Feedback from pub servers. Hybrid Spawn System. Poll is for that not SW.

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Waterloo

1/ new wall seems to be for optimising. makes defence push forward more.
2/ new wall, creates direct route to obj, makes attacks easier and less interesting.
3/ second wall gone, end result easier to blow.lack of real challenge.
4/ this original back route with gap could of helped defence.
5/ + 6/ both objs next to each other plus the main route a bottleneck creates no chance for defence. ive even given up trying anymore.

overall this level has gradually got more boring. i understand that pub still has no full spawn waves yet but on last obj it makes little difference. the obj area is so easy to defend. if you go a different route its useless unless you have backup and this is pub. defenders are just cut down. i’d like to see us go back to older versions, the back route with the gap at (4) and separated targets (5).

Whitechapel

only real issue is as a defender getting into the chapel. you can get cut off very easily with no option but to get spawn killed until that section is over. maybe a few get through but not enough.

rest is fun.

London Bridge

in general i have to say its terrible due to every objective being a walk over for attack. its no fun attacking or defending there is no challenge either way. your just going through the motions. i wasnt sure about why until someone reminded me (anti) that casual still has no spawnwaves on defence. maybe it is that, but not sure. waterloo also has that feeling of inevitability.

camden

i was gutted playing this the other night. just getting into my stride and level ends we lose. wtf ok we were struggling on 1st obj. maybe tweak the decay time on obj or shorten but to be honest it wont become more enjoyable it will just be fixing the bigger problem and that is the short time available. most of the time its not an issue as attackers have an easy time of it. and there’s the crux. are levels being nubified so that they can be completed within the ridiculously short time.

i would like to see on camden the spawn distances actually being implemented for the first objective like they are on all other objectives, giving attackers a slightly better chance each spawn. the rest is good fun.

overall with levels the restricted times for each objective is fine if you get past the objective but its SOO annoying to have a level end. its been said its noob friendly plus the spawn wave system is “noob friendly”. does that mean all pub servers are geared towards newbies. where do i play? i cant stand sw for too long, x2 long maps. and now im finding pub rules frustrating.

there is little challenge in playing on pub servers atm it appears they are being balanced to finish as quickly as possible. the enjoyment comes from not knowing how far you can get or hold off the enemy. but thats taken away from you.

i want to play on.
sorry computer says NO.
WTF

please get rid of these restrictive times on levels. and implement full spawn waves on pub as well as SW.

We spent a lot of time arguing over the benefits of spawn waves and i feel thats all gone to waste even given sd have agreed its a better system but still feel a system with trickle kills is somehow more enjoyable to a newbie. im baffled.:confused:

(Volcano) #2

the area around the first objective on Victoria really ****s me to tears i would love if the action was spread out combined with the constant invisible walls impeding any kind of special movements around any of the maps ( movement flow might be a better word) .

london it’ll do fine for a pub map but it wont be played ever in competitive which i think is okay ( it would be better to have the mappers focus their energy into making better maps)

whitechapels final stage feels a lot like lemmings, there might be a 2nd way around if you can even call it that but it still puts you in direct fire of the enemy team so any sort of ninja caps would never happen with this layout

camdens first phase area around the switch still feels very bad to me i cant put my finger on why though, the rest of the map is great though

(iwound) #3

[QUOTE=Volcano;456183]

camdens first phase area around the switch still feels very bad to me i cant put my finger on why though, the rest of the map is great though[/QUOTE]

could be that its so exposed. too easy to get cut down in the lever area.

(Kl3ppy) #4

Too bad I cant vote for more than 1 map, I really like waterloo and camden, but camden is the best map imo

(MrFunkyFunk) #5

I voted Camden (even with the terrible lever part).

Regarding pub enjoyement on a OBJ or SW sv for any of the map, I already spoke my mind. Spawnwaves and I had hoped for some better spawn locations.

(BomBaKlaK) #6

Camden is the less claustrophobic, with multiple routes, even carrying obj is a bit more fun.
I don’t really like the first objective, but it’s ok.

Spawnwaves needed in both modes Obj and SW.

(iwound) #7

i agree about camden. although i do like the first stage as well. the added blocking gate is a good addition to block defence coming from spawn. but it seems a little tough to do that then the lever while also cover yourself from the open area. even with a few of you, a fresh defence spawn can clear you out and it all starts again.
solutions, maybe the gate control could be nearer the attack side.
or another electrical box in the tracks for cover.

the added routes on the second stage are a nice addition but underused.
everyone either goes left or right. as 8v8 max there really is no need to go another route. the full right can give you a good position to flank.
maybe if this were harder to get to, it might force players to make more varied choices. as it is, left or right will do until you gain upper hand.

i notice that the large barriers before the obj train carriage is a bit underused inc by myself. it seems a left over from previous versions. i did like the open versions with side flanks. the open play has gone replaced with bottle necks. i think a nice addition could be a destroyable section in the large barrier to allow players to run directly towards the carriage. something that was easier than the main obj but not too easy its done immediately.
ie. a plant on the defence side. also possibility of access for attack on opposite side at these barriers. not full access but from a low window. to mix it up.

in the pic red square destroyable barrier from this side.
yellow circles clear passage. blue circle barrier.
yellow box, building to allow shooting through windows.

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all this will do is make it more interesting and change the gameplay if the section runs long into the time to help an attack. although currently in obj its fairly easy anyway. give spawn waves in obj mode and it could work. if not then its a walk over helped by an advantaged spawn positioning. maybe putting the control of advantages should be put back in the control of players ie through side objectives to help progression rather than just put players nearer the obj. like the gate on the first section. lets continue this add a 2nd helpful objective to main objectives will make levels a lot more interesting and feel dynamic and varied each time we play.

(Mustang) #8

The red door is a bad idea, but the yellow building seems alright.

(iwound) #9

without the destroyable barrier marked red square. there isnt much need of a view from there.
thats there to add a counter to a defuse.

i really shouldnt of added a window facing down the tracks. thats a bad idea. bad iwound. :mad:
window only to face barrier.

(Mustang) #10

[QUOTE=iwound;456243]without the destroyable barrier marked red square. there isnt much need of a view from there.
thats there to add a counter to a defuse.[/QUOTE]
The barrier is a bad idea because it allows the defense to push too far forward and very easily spawn camp attack. Which was the whole point in adding the “washing area” in the first place.

[QUOTE=iwound;456243]i really shouldnt of added a window facing down the tracks. thats a bad idea. bad iwound. :mad:
window only to face barrier.[/QUOTE]
Yea I got that don’t worry.

(rookie1) #11

Liked them all …some sectors/objectives on each maps less
my Best objectives :Barricades in LB and last Camden obj
For the rest its mostly deja vu from map to map (same pattern)

(ImageOmega) #12

Regardless of any actual written feedback I hope the poll alone is enough to suggest that we need more maps in the same vein and style as Camden.

(iwound) #13

[QUOTE=Mustang;456251]The barrier is a bad idea because it allows the defense to push too far forward and very easily spawn camp attack. Which was the whole point in adding the “washing area” in the first place.
[/QUOTE]

was it, i thought it was the other way around, to stop attack over running the defence.
ive never known defence to ever camp attack spawn there. it leaves them too open.
maybe just the odd soldier left over from the last objective but they never lasted long.

the way ive laid it out attack can still easily flank a central push from defence. it’d be hard to cover the left, right and central route. as there is 3 other ways in which then split.

(Violator) #14

The maps in general (apart from Camden though this has been hit a bit and LB) have become too linear now. I can see why the big wall was added a the WL att spawn as a spawn camp shield but it just funnels everyone down the same path and can actually make it easier to spawn camp if def control this area. Am pleased that its back to one barrier though at the ‘oasis wall’ :). Too many blocked-off routes now at the final objective in WL, def are getting increasingly spawncamped here. WC is just as linear as before tbh, though it is fun until the lift stage, including hacking the 3 lift thingies, but after that its a bit of a grind, though the last obj is better with the top route available.

(INF3RN0) #15

Camden is definitely my most enjoyable play experience. This is due to the overall ease of being able to defend the obj in a variety of ways, while offering the offense multiple strategical attack plans. The side obj really makes the first obj great as well.

(rand0m) #16

I really don’t like any maps. LB is my favorite designed map, it just needs some objective tweaking. I guess I’m one of the few who doesn’t like Camden, I guess it could be the 3 data cores I don’t like about it. I’m just not a big fan of that part of the map and can’t offer any insight on how to fix it just not sure why I don’t like it but I don’t lol. I’m looking forward to battersea hopefully that goes the way of Camden and its not top linear, well see. Overall I guess the maps could be worse, white chapel is my least favorite way to linear and just seems to small to me for some reason.

The first objective on Camden also needs to be fixed or supplied some sort of cover, maybe place the lever inside of a building rather then on the tracks that way defense can setup inside, and if defense gets overrun the offense can also setup a defense for those activating the switch. There’s just no cover and once defense spawns as it is now its fairly easy for them to kill the person activating the switch, especially now that air strikes are fixed.

(ImageOmega) #17

You know, this is also a recurring issue that a lot of people don’t care for, or find particularly fun, the carry objective parts of the maps. In fact, I think we would be better off getting rid of these sections or creating a map that is a doc style map where there is a single data core to pickup, defend, and return over a good distance.

(Kl3ppy) #18

Before getting rid of it, I want to test the following changes. First, pick the objective up by just running over them. Then the defender spawn needs to be closer to the delivery zone and the attacker spawn closer to the pick up zone. Third, increase the delivery time, right now its way to fast, set it to a couple of secs, maybe something between 5 and 10 secs.
This would create 2 possible fight places, depends in the team tactic. The battles could happen at the pick up zone or at the delivery zone. Basically I want to test the transmit mechanic and design from the etqw map island. Don’t know if it is possible in the current maps but it should be possible for future maps. It has to be carefully tested and designed because all maps so far are defender biased.

(Ashog) #19

Defense in the Church doesn’t work now, because defense gets cut off most of the times already in front of the church, so it is luck if one or two very injured defenders actually manage to get through into the church, where they usually die very quickly since no proper def has been built up there. All due to the now unblocked corner of the church with containers near the fence where most of the meat happens now. I like the meat but breaking defense mechanism is not gooood.

(iwound) #20

agreed ash. all routes are cut off easily by attack there.
defence could spawn very near the chapel and if they had a one way barrier for defence to enter the fighting area ie a ramp over a barrier. then that would stop attack just pushing down on defence spawn.

the barrier could be later destroyed by the moving ev.