Let's Talk Augments?

(AdmiralTeddy) #1

Hey there,

I was having a conversation with @Sniff last night regarding certain augments and how they behave and we came to this conclusion: certain augments don’t actually work, whether it’s not working with certain mercs or not working at all.

Right now, fletcher’s cards for example have a certain perk “lock on” which doesn’t really do anything as Sniff pointed out.
I mean in theory it’s meant to either decrease the time it takes for them to detonate (in other words the time it takes for you to bring up your detonator and blow them), or to make them faster to auto-blow, but then the “detection” mechanism is no longer there.

Another thing with these augments are, some don’t work the way they’re meant to.

For example, with flying pig (take no damage when landing), I’ve still taken damage just from landing.
Or with fail safe on nader, I’ve taken the same damage I take from my own nades as I did without the augment.

So I brought this up, over here, because I’m not sure if this is considered a bug or if it’s just things that haven’t been fully polished out.

also regarding that lock on augment on fletcher, I think it’d be nice if you swap it out for “spares”.
would be an interesting mechanic on him.

(god1) #2

Have you actually tested lock on not working for fletch? According to SD’s community manager it decreases the delay between clicking the detonator and the charge exploding, this delay is very short by default so the lock-on decrease to that is barely noticeable anyways.

(AdmiralTeddy) #3

I’m not sure how to respond to that tbh, I’m not too sure if it actually works or not,
as you say “if it works” it’s very unnoticeable which makes for a filler augment which has little function, either way I’d like to see some improvements and bug fixes on augments as some of them just don’t do what they’re meant to.

(smartIsland) #4

I still take some dmg from falling with flying pig as well. Also for example with quick melee it doesn’t feel any faster, probably because it is mostly on the cricket bat but still, shouldn’t it be noticeable? Also I have tried so damn hard to toss air strike markers with juggler but it never seems to cancel them

(einstyle) #5

I’ve got a loadout with the lock on and it does feel a tad faster, so I’m guessing it’s working as intended
Apart from that, you’re right with some perks not always triggering.
Also I’d like to see all useless perks (i.e. most of em) removed alltogether, having only decent modifications. Let’s be honest, most of them suck and the best cards are just those that have the least useless perks.

(umberInlet) #6

I can say that Flying Pig does not work on the Obsidion Proxy card.

Wish I could trade that out. T.T

(Eox) #7

There’s also a lot of augments that are just a pure and simple waste on some characters. And there’s some augments that does not promote skillful play at all.

  • Cool on low hp mercs makes no sense : even without it, you’ll more likely end dead before the machine gun overheats. It’s a very bad idea to say at a MG with Proxy or Aura anyway. This feels like a waste : its much more useful on a merc with a higher hp count.
  • I can understand Fail Safe’s presence for Fragger or Nader, but on Arty or Proxy, it feels really insulting. I seriously doubt someone will be clumsy enough to get caught in his own artillery strike or mine.
  • Try Hard more or less rewards you for dying without killing anybody : this is not a good concept IMO. It’s helpful for beginners, and useless for good players. We don’t need such a crutch.

While we’re at it, is pineapple juggler able to throw back Nader’s grenades ?

(_Sniff_) #8

[quote=“Eox;20370”]
While we’re at it, is pineapple juggler able to throw back Nader’s grenades ?[/quote]

I’ll be more than happy to throw a nade at you on a server to test it.

(einstyle) #9

I’ve never once seen someone throwing a nade back since I’ve started playing

(_Sniff_) #10

My test for Fletcher’s Detonation perk. Either my editing is off or the difference is so slight that it increased the detonation time by 1 frame.

I would like to be able to make a more precise measurement.

(Gi.Am) #11

if you want to make precise measurement here is what you could do.

  • Lock the framerate (v-sync or I think someone posted a console/cfg. command for that) higher framerate means more accurate but it is important that your PC can pull of the framerate
  • record the triggering with something that will record raw frames (bmp output for example)
  • after you recorded both go to a frame that is known to be of the same point (I would take the frame that has the beginning of the explosion in it)
  • count backwards to the beginning of the trigger animation the one with the fewer frames would be it.
  • if you want to ensure that some errors don’t go in the way do this a couple of times (10 or more for each) and take the average of the frames.

Also I would say you will atleast have a 2 maybe 3 frames uncertainty no matter what.

But to be honest from your Video it is already clear that the basic animation is less than a second which means that the improvement that the perk gives will be less than 0.3 of a second. So we are looking at something around 2 Frames of improvement if your PC hits 60 FPS.

That seems pretty useless outside of edgecases

On the other hand is the question is this worse for fletcher than it is for bushwacker or Proxy because I would guess that the lock on of the turret and the trigger time of the mine is under a second aswell.

(_Sniff_) #12

Add me on steam. Lets do some tests. How2nx

(_Sniff_) #13

I come back with good news! Since the Fletcher Patch they did fix Nader’s Failsafe perk. Sort of? Now you just do more nade damage to yourself without the perk. Which is an interesting choice.

Flying pig does not work still

(AdmiralTeddy) #14

@Eox tryhard is a cool mechanic on lower hp mercs, I had a friend which intentionally killed himself to get more hp and then pushed out behind enemies and made riskier plays, 30hp is a lot, but yes it’s a nooby mechanic, if used right however (or unintentionally) it can be pretty good.
besides, when you lose the hp you can’t actually heal it back up. (dunno if this is a bug or intended)

(AdmiralTeddy) #15

@smartIsland
nader’s nades can be thrown back to my knowledge as long as they havent directly hit you, which as you know causes them to blow.
all nades can be thrown back, i’ve seen it happen, never managed to do it myself, probably also wont happen in many scenarios as most people cook frags. or bounce them off walls/hit you direct.
which in most situation makes it a very situational perk which doesnt work most of the time.

@Gi.Am @Sniff whether your test proves it has a slight difference or none at all, we can all agree its very underwhelming for an augment slot.

(AdmiralTeddy) #16

holy shit me n @Sniff went ham on testing stuff, exciting stuff to come!

(Eox) #17

This is exactly why I do not welcome Try Hard. You shouldn’t be rewarded for dying in any way. Suiciding yourself just to grab an health bonus shouldn’t be a thing at all.

(B_Montiel) #18

I’ve got a silver KE12 proxy with try hard, and it’s indeed quite strong especially for lemminging purposes. Die three times doing nothing, come back with 120hp, sneak to obj, kill the close-to-obj defenders, profit. Urrrrgh. Not to mention the smg+mp setup and the ability to reload while sprinting…

(Gi.Am) #19

Sorry right now no time for testing. My rig wouldn’t be much of use anyways.

But cool findings Sniff keep up the good work.

Try Hard sounds bad in this iteration. Ghost recon has a similiar function now (tho everyone has it) the big difference is as soon as you kill someone the bonus is gone. This could balance it out imo it would still be useful to boost someone to give him an edge in the first encounter or to buy you 1 second on planting/defusing.

Also if we discuss the usefulness of augments we have to keep in mind that they are meant to be not too strong. Strong enough to trick people into spending money on Loadout cards ofcourse :smiley: . But they should imo give you at most a 1-5% percent advantage compaired to someone running the base loadout.

(smartIsland) #20

I would like increased footsteps on many other characters instead of try hard and less dmg from own explosives. I would also like a more ammo per second at ammo stations perk. Also y not make pineapple juggler let you lay on airstrikes to cancel them and the marker just blows and kills just you like in wolf or call it “helmet trick” or something