Ok, so I certainly noticed that Rhino got a powerup this update. And in and of itself I’m fine with that except for a minor gripe…It’s basically impossible for a Proxy to kill him. I had one stand on a mine, take the hit, then take 3 shotgun blasts(body) point blank and he wasn’t even at half health. Proxy can empty an entire clip of her machine pistol into him and it barely scratches him. It literally takes 2 of his bullets(from any range) to kill a Proxy. I can only jump around so much before 2 of those many, many bullets kill me. Bare in mind, I’m not attacking him head on by any means. I’m coming from behind him, setting up mine traps, aiming for the head when possible, etc. It just doesn’t easily kill him. Sure, I managed to do it, but it’s a bit unrealistic to do at the moment. What it means to me as a Proxy is that if I see a Rhino, I’m not pushing at the objective because I know for a fact I’m dead meat if I do. This isn’t exactly great for the team I know, but I just can’t stand being a lemming if I know going in I won’t even touch the objective anyway.
I also noticed that if one team has 2 or more Rhino and the other doesn’t the team without is, usually, guaranteed to lose because it’s so difficult to push through him.
Now, again, I get that is probably the purpose of Rhino, and I agree that prior to this update he was a bit weak(Proxy could pretty easily kill him which wasn’t good), but this current state seems just a tad bit excessive to me personally. Maybe tone it down just a tad little bit.
So, what are your thoughts on this people?
Let's talk about the new Rhino
How is that possible if a point blank shotgun deals 80 damage ? 3 * 80 = 240 damage.
Not pushing when you see a Rhino ? Good ! Maybe you will use teammates for something.
Speaking of public servers, people are also unable to deal with camping auras, despite Fragger being in the rotation. How does that prove anything about Aura being overpowered ?
I have no idea how the math is supposed to work, but if what you say is true then it obviously isn’t working properly. I can’t say for sure, but it feels like they beefed up his HP or armor or something. At any rate, I tried several times and 3 body shots would not kill him. Although I think I did get him in 3 headshots(possibly 2 head and 1 body…wasn’t paying too much attention). And just to re-emphasize, I don’t think he’s super OP or anything, just a wee bit overcompensating.
As for teammates these days there are some good ones out there, but mostly it’s me as the only engineer and no one on the team backing me up. Medics run past me, Field Ops don’t drop ammo, Rhino and Fragger don’t lay down cover, etc. The price of playing pub you might say. Now, were they pushing I would take my chances, but you have to understand they’re usually camping out and not pushing forward so I am 100% guaranteed to die if I run out there alone(cause the team won’t follow). And that’s when I’m being a tryhard and doing the lemming run for the objective. So yeah, when they’re not, and I see a Rhino, we’re basically playing a waiting game until they decide to push so I have at least some chance of making it to the objective.
Ok, I’ll go off topic for a moment about aura. First let me say I don’t have any problem with her as is. That being said, if she’s standing on the station in a relatively decent location she can be extremely hard to kill. With, Proxy, for example, you need to jump around and land all head shots before she can shoot you twice in the body or once in the head. Comparatively you will have to hit Aura 3-4 times(and they had better be mostly headshots). So I can see how could be frustrating for mercs that have no alternative but to close in on her. Under bad circumstances you could empty a whole clip and not kill her. But of course, a lot of that goes back to bad decision making and not knowing your class vs. aura’ class very well.
Fragger, of course, is a different story entirely…nade. Done. Or at the very least the station is gone and she’s hurt bad enough to pick off fairly easily. And on the subject of my dear friend Fragger I do wish they’d make him a little more effective. TBH as more productive mercs come into play I’m really not seeing the point of nerfing him like they did. I’d like full nade power back, and a shorter cook time, (but keep the magic rainbows) and add a “must be thrown” penalty once you start to cook(in other words, you either throw it or it blows up in your hand). Ordinarily I wouldn’t support that penalty, but if his nades were back to full power and had that shorter cook time I think it would only be fair to have some sort of penalty in place(no option to switch away while cooking, etc. I’m open to options on this). I’d also like to see him get a perk like the dropped med and ammo packs where he could pick up 1 extra grenade(if he had already thrown his 2). Maybe even a different gun in his rotation…maybe. Or perhaps a slight speed increase as the fast characters run circles around him, literally, in close quarters. I mean, he’s called Fragger so I expect him to be really good at that and currently he’s just…meh. Still like him, but he’s no longer my first pick. I tend to stick with Proxy these past few updates because of her speed+shottie hell combo.
Going back full circle, I am interested to try Rhino a couple more times, to see how it plays out, but my initial plays with him made me feel a bit too OP. I was getting a bit of a guilt complex about it. Had to switch back to proxy lol.
Excuse me for skimming, but I too tried using Proxy against Rhino… had to switch to Nader to finally take him out with a martyrdom drop.
I think OP is a go to term that is being used to gripe about the latest awesome’ness of mercs in the hands of decent players while backed up by decent team members, making them seem near invincible in built up/urban choke points.
OP? Not quite… but in need of tweaking, yes.
I think part of the issue may be in how Rhino heals. Is his heal rate the same as all other mercs? He is a big boy, and perhaps a slightly reduced heal rate from Aura’s station, Sawbonez’ med packs, etc. would help balance out his ultra tank status. It would add to the logical sense of realism for a lad his size too. A big frame like that is going to have to work harder to heal from an operation and/or injury… it serves that in-combat heals/stimulants won’t be nearly as quick to act as a lithe frame like Aura, Proxy or Kira… as examples.
[QUOTE=Bloodbite;530847]
I think part of the issue may be in how Rhino heals. Is his heal rate the same as all other mercs? He is a big boy, and perhaps a slightly reduced heal rate from Aura’s station, Sawbonez’ med packs, etc. would help balance out his ultra tank status. It would add to the logical sense of realism for a lad his size too. A big frame like that is going to have to work harder to heal from an operation and/or injury… it serves that in-combat heals/stimulants won’t be nearly as quick to act as a lithe frame like Aura, Proxy or Kira… as examples.[/QUOTE]
I like this. It would alleviate the frustration of getting him down to 10%, for him to come back in 3 seconds with full HP again.
alternatively, initial spread could be increased for minigun, similar to Fragger nerf’s. Atm. the first few shots easily go for the head, and rest is history.
I have a feeling you have not been paying attention to the aura stations the Rhino’s you’ve fought were standing in because the recount of your actions doesn’t add up.
Also, the proxy shooting at people and not getting stuff done can be equally applied to fragger.
I think the math is easily explained as in reality actually make the whole damage area of the shotgun blast connect with the hitbox is quite difficult, to say the least. Usually you apply a fraction of the full potentional, even from up close.
In the specific example I mentioned(where he lived through the mine), there was no visible health station within range. That’s not to say it isn’t possible that one was there as I have seen it glitch where you don’t see the “aura” from it or the glow stays in place long after it’s gone but I did not see one there. In the other example(emptying her machine pistol into him) there was definitely no station or medics around, but he was a decent distance away. Still, the game gave me dings for the vast majority of the shots I fired(if not all) and it did barely anything.
As far as it not adding up, I don’t know what to tell you other than that’s what happened. I find it odd too which is why I brought it up.
Here’s another example I just experienced on bridge…the 2nd objective in the room.
A Rhino gets in there(this one had a healing station) and effectively the attacking team can’t come in through the main door because it’s virtually impossible to kill him given the station, his durability, his amount of ammo(there’s an ammo crate there too as you know) & his high ground advantage. The only other semi-viable way in is to go past him outside, through the rest of his team mind you, loop around, pray he doesn’t see you coming across the bridge after him, then make it in behind him. Drop a mine, he steps on it, shoot him twice with shotgun, he lives. I’m dead. Rinse and repeat.
Now why this concerns me is because I fear the devs have created a scenario in which a defending team can create a wall that’s virtually impossible to break through. And that’s just 1 Rhino. Imagine now that there are 2 in that room, each guarding an entry along with teammates(this happened). Now it’s totally impossible to get in there. I don’t mind a challenge, really I don’t, but 2 Rhino, 2 turrets, and a medic and it’s just ridiculous. You’ll spend the entire map just trying to get that 1 objective. It’s basically impossible for the attacking team to win at that point.
Maybe another way in, or another open window attackers could shoot through or something, or (hint hint devs) un-nerfing fragger’s grenades would help. I don’t mind Rhino being tough if that’s his purpose, but there needs to be a viable counter in situations like that. I hesitate to say my team sucked because I felt like they were making a coordinated effort, it just wasn’t going anywhere. At any rate, I’m open to suggestions or strategies.
Seen a corridor camping Rhino decimate an entire team many a time. The most annoying thing about them is that it always forces me to pull out Fragger or let them continue the slaughter. Even then he can survive a cooked grenade to the face (edit - if not perfectly timed), but luckily most of them then panic and let off the spin so it’s an easy kill.
Still, not a big fan of spam type weapons in skill based shooters.
I haven’t had trouble taking down rhinos, even with proxy. Granted, it can be difficult, especially if the rhino knows what they are doing as well. Usually skyhammer is enough. Never had to pull out fragger.
hmm i used proxy and killed rhino really easy just aim for his head and its done. i dunno why ppl are scared of him he just has 200hp and a huge cone firing minigun kill him from a distance or go all balls out and run around him jumping aim at his head.
you get a ‘ding’ if at least one of the pellets hit the head. so if it was in fact just one pellet, the damage is roughly 10-20hp.
mine plus two juicy bodyshots will down anyone, so sorry; your recollection of the events is likely wrong.
2nd obj room can be cleared out with explosives, and you can ignore the rhino upstairs altogether.
I test-drove the Rhino last night and i must say, when you play as him, you fear death just as any character. Actually, i felt that i have a massive target sign attached to my back (for good reason, too, obviously). This guy is a very special-situation merc. In most scenarios he’s not as strong as it might first appear. Especially if the opponent team has encountered the Rhino a couple of times before.
I think we need to stay calm, not panic, and see what strategies work best against a Rhino-wall. I have the impression that there will be a valid strategy against him in all situations.
[QUOTE=PinkFrog;530952]I test-drove the Rhino last night and i must say, when you play as him, you fear death just as any character. Actually, i felt that i have a massive target sign attached to my back (for good reason, too, obviously). This guy is a very special-situation merc. In most scenarios he’s not as strong as it might first appear. Especially if the opponent team has encountered the Rhino a couple of times before.
I think we need to stay calm, not panic, and see what strategies work best against a Rhino-wall. I have the impression that there will be a valid strategy against him in all situations.[/QUOTE]
lack of stoker & red eye (another sniper) does make it little tougher though. Remember Aura’s station where the only explosive nade in the game was Fragger’s?
Aura is much more enjoyable to play with/as/against now that there are naders and fletchers in play
I used Rhino quite a bit in earlier iterations and could mow a group down easily, these days he gets taken out fairly quickly… he’s not the death tank he once was.
really? i feel like its the other way around. His minigun feels either more accurate or deals more damage, its just that once recognized the whole enemy team is like ‘shoot that big guy, ignore the rest!’
The gun definitely feels tighter I agree, but feels like it takes a few more hits than usual and he can’t take near as much damage as he used to.
About the bridge room, remember that you can take out the objective just by spamming objectives into the room. So a lockdown isn’t possible.
He does add more of an RPS element to the game than most mercs, but I’ve made my peace with that. On publics he creates an interesting challenge (slash opportunity if you are Nader) and in fixed team games he is probably easy enough to dispose of.
Oh really is that all? Just aim for the head and done? Neat.
I’m dubious about his supposed damage dropoff at range. I specifically try to engage him from long range, and I feel like I’m absorbing way too much damage from his mini-gun. Maybe I’m just exceptionally unlucky, but that strategy hasn’t really worked wonders for me yet.