Let's have a serious talk about Dirty Bomb, where it may be heading and the concerns


(Dommedag) #1

Hello Dirty Bomb community!
I have for a long time considered to write this post, but I guess I’ve been too lazy to actually do it untill now. I’m a 27 years old passionate gamer & streamer (twitch.tv/dommedag) who loves Dirty Bomb and have about 700 hours played in this game. Most people know me as the “sneakyRhino”, “CrazyRhino”, “High level profile, low level plays” guy. Over the last month, I’ve grown more and more concerned about the direction Dirty Bomb is heading and the piling up of issues that may not be very healthy for the community or the game. I will try to adress my concerns and describe exactly what makes me so worried about this and hopefully you guys can give some good input as well!

First of all, I’d like to thank Splashdamage for making this game and their involvement in the community throughout the process. I’ve both had the pleasure, to talk with some of the devs and even play with them on pub servers. Your concept of this game was rather a challenge, since alot of studios around dont dare to touch the class systems inside FPS games due to the constant balance battle. (omfg, this guy is OP!?!?). However, with some tweaking listening to the community, you have somewhat nailed it pretty well with the balance. The game is alot of fun to play and the stopwatch kind of brings something new to the competative FPS table. I can see this game become one of the bigger titles around IF the process goes into the right direction.

Let’s talk about a very important yet a VERY frustrating topic, The Loadout system.
I do understand that you guys want to make a system that symbols you and not copying someone elses ideas. However, I do believe the Loadout system is one of the things that will create alot of problems for you in the current and the future. The reasons are simple:
It creates missconceptions of Pay To Win Mechanic in this game. New players will go into the game without too much knowledge of how good those augments are on the cards. What they see is that the guy on the other team have this “Nader Augment with 10% more blast damage” and they do not. So obviously, it’s an unfair advantage? This is a topic that have been touched by so many people, my friends, new beginners and even big streamers/youtubers. I like the Augments, I like the skin idea. But I dont like the RNG of a loadout card.
How could you improve this? My answer would be; Copy the “Runes and Mastery” system of League of Legends. Let players pick 3 Augments and a weapon combination they would like to enter the game with within the Merc they are playing. This will give EVERYONE the same “advantages” instead of luck of whoever gets the nice loadout or not. About the Augments, obviously, you shouldn’t let people take all the good ones. If you make the augment system in a way where people can choose; 1 Weapon enhancement augment (reload while running, more mags, focus etc…), 1 Ability Enhancement augment (Bigger healthpack heals, higher explosive damage, bigger sensor radius etc…) and last 1 Environmental Enhancement augment (Guardian Angel, Longer time on MG, Doublejump etc…)
This system wouldn’t just eliminate the whole missconception of Pay 2 Win, but it would also give people the option to customize more themselves and maybe even make tactics out of it!

I both know and understand that Loadout cards are a part of your business model and as a Free to Play game you need your way to get income for both paying the expenses so far and for the future update of the game. I do however have a couple of better ideas for how to make money that I fully believe is going to be just as good if not even better then what you have at this very moment.

If you take a look at the other successful games around that are both Free to Play and those who requires you to buy the game (Minecraft/Counter Strike), they have found a business model that works very well for them. Ofcourse those games also got a huge playerbase, which im pretty confident you guys can reach as well if you get this game done right.

League of Legends releases new champions, very much alike your Mercenary system. but next to that, they also sells XP boost, Credit boost and SKINS. People in this gaming generation LOVES cosmetics, to look different then the rest. Me including. I’m not sure about the others, but I’d also love to buy XP boost from time to time since grinding levels are my type of thing (mmorpg noob). And I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only person who would buy the xp boost either. You already have a credit boost, so that one is settled. I know some of the loadouts gives you certain skins, proably not the best skins, but it makes you look different. Now, if you were to remove the Loadout system. This would be a just as good way to get money. I’d proably pay 5 dollar if not 10 dollar for having Alienware skins on my weapons or a weapon. They looked absolutely great, sadly my loadouts were too crappy compared to my others, so I can’t use them due to the advantage the bronze augments gives me over the AW ones. I also fully believe adding some skins to the Mercs would be pretty cool as well, just imagine if you could look like a “Space Marine Rhino!”, or a phantom in a ninja outfit or even better! Octoberfest Skyhammer with beer air drops!. Anyways, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be the only person around who would like to have some skins to choose between on my mercs.

The second game I’d like to mention with the business model is Counter Strike Global Offensive. They have proved that weapon skins are important for the players in the community. Both to wear it or trade it up. At some eSports arrangements, they had about more then a million dollar worth of skins up for betting for the matches. Now that just tells how many skins and money there is in it. However, they also have a markedplace where the players can trade and sell skins. However, there is some auction cut which the owner of the game takes from the sale. This is also a great way to get a littlebit extra of money. With the whole Dirty Bomb, Mercs doing jobs for money theme. I totally find a “Black Marked” suiting. Where else would they get their weapons?

Another thing the Counter Strike GO community have proved is how important the community kits are. Where the community can help you out with making weapon skins, maps etc… that you eventually could borrow, buy or take and use in your own game and eventually ship it out as a DLC or an update.

The third game I’d like to talk about is Minecraft. Yes I know, what the fuck can we learn about minecraft? mining? lol. Minecraft have added a service to their game where they offer their players to rent a server. Please Splashdamage, there have been so many wishes upon this topic and it’s very clear that the community wants it. Give us the option to rent a server. This could be a good income for you and you would make ALOT of people happy. Who would rent a server? I know some streamers would want their community server to play with viewers as they can controll the traffic abit more, and the same goes to alot of the game communities around who owns servers in various games. Competative teams would also want to rent servers due to the fact it gives them the option to both practice new tactics without anyone being able to watch them and the ability to invite other teams for scrims. The Dirty Cup servers are a temporary solution, but what happens when more teams are coming? People starting to fight for a spot on those servers. People want to scrim, others want to pug and there is not enough room for them all. It would just create a huge frustration.


(Dommedag) #2

Since we are on the server topic, I’d like to talk about the current servers as well. There are still “ghost servers” where it says there are 10 people in it, you enter the lobby and bam! 0!. Spooky! This is a problem that have been around for a long time and it kind of creates frustration to many players. Then you have the “unable to connect to server” which jumps up every now and then. Also there are still a few random server crashes that happens. These are things you need to fix, please. If you dont fix this, you will leave alot of players with alot of frustration. This frustration will turn into toxicity which would eventually make even more players turn away fromt his game.

The second part of the buggy servers lies within the matchmaking system. I’ve never played a game that have had this much issues with making a match happen. The ammount of 7v3, missing people in lobby, unable to connect spam and other kind of broken lobbies are unreal. It takes me about 5-10 tries to get 1 game going. 1 GAME. This is another thing that creates alot of frustration for people. I’ve even had real life friends who tried MM, then quit for 2 weeks. Came back again and same problems all over again. They told me “wow, still probelems with this? This shit is never going to get fixed” and they quit the game. i try to make them come back but they refuse due to the fact that the servers are not working. I’m sure I’m not the only person who have those friends who totally got turned off from DB by the servers.

Speaking of Matchmaking, I still believe there needs to be some fixes not just the server, but also when it comes to access and brackets. Right now, the system is favoring 5man premade. Not everyone in the game have that many friends and playing against the 5man premade with communication will very much lead to a loss. So right now, this system favors more the players with alot of good player friends then players who dont really have that many to play with. I would be totally fine with the system if it was Team Ranked/Ladder, but it’s not.

I fully believe there should be a competative server mode without rankings to give people some warm up for the competative. Right now, I see tons of people who are level 5 and 6 rushing into competative. Many of these people dont understand the maps, unsure about mechanics etc… I’ve seen so many players not doing anything of what they are suposed to do which again creates this frustration among the players who very well know how this works and eventually make them toxic players who starts flaming their teamates for not being competent enough to win the game.

Raise the level of competative ranking to level 10 or maybe 15 to make sure most players have done these maps, classes enough to be able to play it properly in ranked.

I also believe we need a Solo Queue/Duo Queue Ranking system as well. This will be the primary ladder that matters. Not just how good you are as a player, but how well you can adapt with new players and win the games. Not only does it give players without alot of friends who plays DB a chance to prove themselves, but it also harvests the competative scene with new names and faces that have worked their way up to the “big boys” and been recognized or eventually picked up by a team. There is no better way to improve your own skills then playing SoloQueue/DuoQueue ladder.

Speaking of Matchmaking, ladder and ranked. There is a growing problems among the current system and I think everyone knows what it is. Yes, it’s the hackers. I have encountered countless amount of those guys so far and it is just plain boring and drains the fun out of it. These are the kind of people that WILL make your players LEAVE your game. You must understand this and do something about it. There have been alot of talk about anti-cheat and what systems are best etc… but let’s face it. At the moment XignCode is NOT working at all. These guys keeps coming in like a pest and ruining games, the moral and the playerbase. Eventho you are very busy making this game and it’s open Beta. The hackers WILL destroy your game, no matter how many hours you spend on making new mercs. If the hackers are around, the players will leave. And do you honestly want the general feedback of “this game is filled with hackers, dont waste your time in dirty bomb” on every kind of gaming forums? Surely doesn’t sound like a good publicity to me!

Speaking of Puiblicity, I know this is a sore topic to touch. But people are talking and questions are coming up about this. Why Exactly did you go with Nexon here? If you want your game to be great, you need a good reputation and this publisher does not have a very good reputation. In a matter of fact, all my years of gaming I’ve never heard of Nexon games except MapleStory which did multiple times get into the newspaper for their bad P2W and money Ethics. And if Nexon is in charge of the current server situation and anti-cheat, well. I hate to break to to you. But they are not doing a very good job there at the very moment.

And last I’d like to talk a littebit about something that proably not as many people care about, but I personally find it interesting and im sure im not alone. The lore, the story. At this point we know very little about the Whole Dirty Bomb story. I’m sure alot of people would love to know what happend, who’s responsible, where are the people? Who’s operating now? And even more when it comes to the lore of the different Mercenaries. I know you guys have been writing something, but it’s pretty poor in my opinion. People who cares about these things would very much want to know as much as possible about the different Mercenaries and maybe even feel somewhat of a connection to them if it’s the way they grew up, their life situation, their mindset etc… The lore is however not one of the subjects that worries me, more or less just an addition I believe would make your game even more solid of the lore lovers.

I know this is some kind of wall of text with terrible grammars, but if you reached the bottom. I’m more then thankful.

There are more then 100 ways to fuck this up and right now a few of those ways are starting to get visible. And that was my biggest concern.

-Dommedag


(B_Montiel) #3

Very interesting post. Just to add something on the loadout system :
When this build got released with the new loadout system, I was pretty surprised to notice that base cards have no augments at all, and all the former system where you had to grind with each merc to unlock the three augment slots was totally erased.
Why not put 3 base augments on the base card which get overlapped by new augments on lead cards up to bronze ?

Example : base card : 3 base augments + base weapons
lead card : 1 classic augment + 2 base augments + related weapons
iron card : 2 classic augments + 1 base augment + related weapons
bronze card and upper : 3 classic augments + related weapons

Even though this would require some adjustments to make sure that a lead or iron cards aren’t better than further quality, this would certainly lower the “omg omg P2W this guy has a cobalt I can’t fight him” voices.


(Aazhyd) #4

[quote=“Dommedag;14183”]Let players pick 3 Augments and a weapon combination they would like to enter the game with within the Merc they are playing. This will give EVERYONE the same “advantages” instead of luck of whoever gets the nice loadout or not. About the Augments, obviously, you shouldn’t let people take all the good ones. If you make the augment system in a way where people can choose; 1 Weapon enhancement augment (reload while running, more mags, focus etc…), 1 Ability Enhancement augment (Bigger healthpack heals, higher explosive damage, bigger sensor radius etc…) and last 1 Environmental Enhancement augment (Guardian Angel, Longer time on MG, Doublejump etc…)
This system wouldn’t just eliminate the whole missconception of Pay 2 Win, but it would also give people the option to customize more themselves and maybe even make tactics out of it![/quote]

That’s basically the Modern Warfare system. I like that system, but you can expect most players to run around with the best augments they can find. Meaning: everybody more or less runs with the same perks.

I’m not saying it’s bad, just pointing it out. It’s way different than the current system, meaning SD has to alter the direction DB is going completely. They are so far in development now, it would be a HUGE change. So I don’t think it will be implemented.


(redhotDetour) #5

Hire op. When i saw nexon, money and hacks. You implement his ideas and ill start spending money.


(Ghosthree3) #6

I actually think XP boosts contradict the very meaning of levels in this game. They are meant to represent your experience and nothing more, by doubling your leveling speed you essentially lie to everyone else. They offer nothing more than that and probably shouldn’t even be in the game.

The only real fair advantage they give is letting you complete fat xp missions quicker.


(bontsa) #7

Good points and enjoyable post overall! Gotta take Ghostthree’s side here though, XP boosters are bit contradictionary even. You too stated in your 2nd post that " Right now, I see tons of people who are level 5 and 6 rushing into competitive"; if they had gone with XP boosts, they’d be now basically level 2-3 gameplay lenght-wise. Could be countered by limiting on what level you could start buying said boosts though, since after these “crucial levels” (until lvl10 now, since there are min. level 10 servers) it becomes simply down to biggest e-phallos contest.

Which by all means go for it boyos, brings money to devs and happiness to participants. Not sure about spectators though :wink: Same can be said about skins, which again is a point I agree with. Even though it will bring all these chat-flooding “Buying: Herobluedragonbloodboilgreen Remburg // Selling: Berserkredlazordeathyellow K121” trade peeps around, ohwell, price we have to pay for if we want devs to be able to have something on their bread.

By the way, since this forum is Nexon’s “territory” so I could imagine there are more direct medium’s to get SplashDamage’s developers immediate attention.


(VincentRJaeger) #8

First off, it was a nice read and I think I recall your username in some game sometime : P
Here’s some things I’d point out from what I know and believe; if any actual fact is wrong, lemme know.

I’d dare say that when it comes to loadout cards and the suggestion of selecting the augments you want is - as aforementioned - going to end up in players only picking the best. The main thing with the loadout cards as far as I know is that it makes it easier to balance the game out (although the Cool augment on Proxy is definetly debatable.) At the least though I would atleast want the ability to select the guns you want to use, since they are supposed to be sidegrades to each other it wouldn’t resort to everyone picking the best gun.

As aforementioned people say, an XP boost wouldn’t really be good given the game’s desired direction. It would not properly represent someone’s skill level, thuogh we all know Level =/= Skill, atleast not to 100% : P

From what I can tell, Splash Damage is heading for a competitive direction. They want to bring this up with the big boys like CS:GO and Dota 2 and etc. Back then the competitive system had a higher level limit of… was it 7 or 8? Someone fill me up on this. I dare consider that was a fairly alright limit personally, but opening it up to lower players would help them get settled in the competitive setting. Not to mention the Community plays a huge role in this too, thanks to DirtyCups who actively build up a competitive scene in favor of this game.
As for Competitive without Ranking, Stopwatch in pubs is generally seen as the go-to mode due to the similiarities.

When it comes to Nexon, I may need help but I recall that Nexon doesn’t have much saying in the game direction, they’re only a publisher really. I read somewhere that Dirty Bomb is Splash Damage’s Intellectual Property, and… I’m not good with business terms but I believe that would mean Splash Damage has the final say in everything.

Phew, a wall o’ text happened. Again, if I did get something wrong please let me know. But in either case I’ll perhaps hop into your Stream sometime whenever I got the time! ^^


(Dommedag) #9

The levels are rather useless and does not prove anything else then who have played this game for most amount of hours. But for some people, being a high level is a feel of accomplishment or feel above the rest. Which is exactly why I believe some people would buy it. Also, lets say your account was banned for verbal abuse and other offensive language. Like most others, you were addicted to the game and wanted to get back into it. So register a new account, start leveling up again. But you would like to join ranked games which requires you to have some levels, the xp boost would give you that chance to get there faster. Last example would be; you got friends playing this game, but they are alot worse then you. Since you have a high rank, you drag them up to your level of ranked games which causes alot of stomping since your freinds are simply not that great of the game. I see alot of players having smurf accounts in CS:GO for the simple reason of being able to play with friends at their ranking/elo/level, so the whole ranked games would be alot more enjoyable for them.

Keep in mind that the XP was the least of the concerns I had, it was more or less a suggestion of how to generate more money and bigger ingame store.

Thanks for reading and the feedback and yes I am fully aware of this post being pretty long and hard to read.


(elegantRoyalty) #10

ill go along with most of the op , the only place i disagree is in being able to choose aug’s / weapons even breaking them up into catergories i think its going to cause balance problems. and they would basically all need to be re worked, plus i think its good that choices have to be made and no one gets a perfect loadout.


(humaneCushion) #11

And how exactly do they not cause balance problems right now?

Most characters get a “definitive” loadout card anyway, and everything else is considered, or actually is, worse.


(elegantRoyalty) #12

ok which is the best one for rhino? the one with that spins up faster or the one that can fire for 150% as long?

by teaming up the the best augs with less wanted ones you dont have to have all the augs balanced vs all the others

your never going to have perfect parity , but this system allows for more flexibility. theres a bad habit among gamers these days they take what some pro player says as the best to be carved in stone carried down the mountain by Moses himself.

truth is there is no best people have different eyes (theres a large variance in ability to spot movement and small details in the distance) different aiming techniques/abilities (how well you snap aim and track movement ) and different movement routes. you can do math and say on paper this looks the best but if it requires skills and abilities you just dont have while another loadout plays to your strength you may be better served by the other.

and whats good for a pro is probably not so useful for the average.

but im definitely not claiming all the cards are close to balanced right now , there definitely needs to be a full pass done on them , im saying the system does offer the chance in the future for there to be several viable choices.


(SchwaD) #13

@MissMurder please show doomedags posts the developers. I am pretty sure a lot of DB players are consider about the same things.

Please set new focuses! In MM and in your anti cheat policy nothing changed since Open Beta is here. You are losing nonstop players cause of that.
Fix it before it will be to late. It’s already taking to much time!


(VincentRJaeger) #14

I may be naive but I have strong doubts people will resort to verbal abuse/offensive language if they like this game a lot, but if it does happen, I’d wager on it being a temporary ban (couldn’t find how it works there; someone fill me in) which oughta give them a lil’ slap and teach them some manners! : P

One thing to know is that the Pub-Games of Dirty Bomb can be joined using a Server List too, which I believe kind of solves the problem of low-ranked friends playing in high-ranked games. I haven’t played CS:GO though so I don’t know if there’s a server list there too. I don’t think though that pub games have a level/rank-based matchmaking, I believe it prioritizes latency over that.

However on the aspect of latency, the servers and the matchmaking does need some fixing, yes. I have been - and I still tend to - get matchmaked into servers where my ping goes above atleast 120. That does require more attention to from the devs.

Lastly, I’m a sucker for lore. Just like you, it’d be fun to have more lore about the mercs, the history behind the game. To me, Lore tends to make a game more alive : P


(Dommedag) #15

I have a couple of friends who feels that Matchmaking is the only way to get “further” in Dirty Bomb and dont feel the same joy about public games where there are no rewards such as in a better rank. And if they want to play with all their friends who plays DB (where 2 are gold and 1 cobalt), the “silverlings” will get dragged up to a higher level of play which will make them feel useless. Which results in their fun being drawn away. This would also be a reason for the higher ranked people in the friend-circle to make another account and level it to the comp level requirements and just use it to play with the lower ranks to make sure they also get to play against their level of oponents. Ofcourse I know at the very moment, the matchmaking is not really working the way it should and it feels like the matching is more random then rank related. But these are very likely things to change.

And good to see that I’m not the only one who would love some more detailed lore!

Lore Highfive’s Jaeger


(bontsa) #16

One magnificent bloke named Ced23Ric around warchest forums wrote this greatly entertaining and astounding story , check it out fellow lore-enthusiasts :wink: Agree’d that we need more official stuff too.

Hope to see where this week’s updates are bringing us, seeing that big discussion inducers like aimpunch, Phantom, ACC, MM are on constant highlight in pretty much all forums, and looked into by devs (at least that’s the image I get from the SplashDamage and these Nexon forums).