Let's fix shotguns, seriously (thanks Eox!)

(watsyurdeal) #1

So first of all, @Eox came up with this, not me, I’m just too lazy to find the thread.

But basically, here’s how it works, we are going to fix shotguns by changing the way damage is calculated.

For starters, most of the guns have range, the deal x amount of damage till they hit y distance, then fall off occurs.

Shotguns don’t really follow this law very well, since they fire a bunch of pellets rather than single shot.

So, the only way to fix them, is by doing this.

Red Pellet - Center pellet, does 100% of the base damage, let’s just say for now, it is 17, so a headshot does 34
Blue Pellets - These pellets do 75% of the base damage, so each pellet does 13 damage, headshots do 26
Green Pellets - These pellets do 50% of the base damage, so each pellet does 9 damage, headshots do 18.

This way, the center pellet still does enough effective damage to be useful and reward aim, while the outermost pellets suffer from damage reduction. In total, this single shotgun blast would do 145 damage to the body, enough to kill a Fragger, assuming all pellets hit the body. This of course is rather difficult to do so I imagine it would be too gamebreaking at all.

But the goal here is to make the shotguns much more competitive than previously, by doing it in this manner we allow them all to be balanced out by still rewarding accuracy, but also encouraging the up close and personal style that shotguns are known for.

With this in mind, I say the Shotguns have the following.

Ahnuld

  • Rate of fire is now 500 ms
  • Base damage is 13, total damage per blast to the body is 98
  • Spread is the tightest

Hollunds

  • Rate of fire is now 666 ms
  • Base damage is 17, total damage per blast to the body is 127
  • Spread is wider than the Ahnuld

Remburg

  • Rate of fire is now 750 ms
  • Base damage is 20, total damage per blast to the body is 145
  • Spread is wider than the Hollunds

All of them have the same pellet count.

What do you think?

(Amerika) #2

I simply want them to become secondaries at some point and put on par with machine pistols. Trying to balance shotguns in a game like DB against ranged weapons where the shotgun is a primary weapon is virtually impossible. As a somewhat weaker secondary it could very easily be balanced.

A gun like the Ahnuld could exist as a primary…possibly a slug-type weapon that does have legit range. But not all of the shotguns can be like that as the game currently plays.

(AnonOmis1000) #3

I don’t see how they’ve done a bad job balancing the shotguns. With the exception of Rhino, only fast moving, agile mercs get access to shotguns, thus rewarding those who are willing to get into the thick of it. It’s high risk, high reward.

But if experience has taught me anything, I’m just going to be ripped for having such an opinion.

(Dawnlazy) #4

My opinion is that they need to go the Ahnuhld route, more range less damage in general. Although I think the Ahnuhld is a REALLY powerful weapon currently so great care on those damage numbers.

(Amerika) #5

[quote=“AnonOmis1000;181652”]I don’t see how they’ve done a bad job balancing the shotguns. With the exception of Rhino, only fast moving, agile mercs get access to shotguns, thus rewarding those who are willing to get into the thick of it. It’s high risk, high reward.

But if experience has taught me anything, I’m just going to be ripped for having such an opinion.[/quote]

They are great for pub play. Not so much in organized 5v5 play where their limited range makes them pretty awful in many situations you’ll find yourself in. But in unorganized pub play where people run about all crazy they become extremely annoying and super frustrating for some people. That’s why you see all the conflicting information from people who claim shotguns are awful and others who will swear that they are the most OP thing in the game.

Trying to balance shotguns to be useful in organized 5v5 play where range is a huge issue has so many issues you’d have to overcome. And at the end of the day the shotgun wouldn’t be a CQC killer like it is in most games and would mostly end up being a slug shooter. Which makes it more like a slow firing Dreiss than a shotgun. That’s why I wouldn’t mind seeing them being moved to the secondary slot and the shotguns being replaced with other/new smgs for those mercs. It resolves all of the range issues, gets rid of the super annoying pub play with shotguns and makes the secondary weapon choices incredibly more interesting.

(AnonOmis1000) #6

[quote=“Amerika;181666”][quote=“AnonOmis1000;181652”]I don’t see how they’ve done a bad job balancing the shotguns. With the exception of Rhino, only fast moving, agile mercs get access to shotguns, thus rewarding those who are willing to get into the thick of it. It’s high risk, high reward.

But if experience has taught me anything, I’m just going to be ripped for having such an opinion.[/quote]

They are great for pub play. Not so much in organized 5v5 play where their limited range makes them pretty awful in many situations you’ll find yourself in. But in unorganized pub play where people run about all crazy they become extremely annoying and super frustrating for some people. That’s why you see all the conflicting information from people who claim shotguns are awful and others who will swear that they are the most OP thing in the game.

Trying to balance shotguns to be useful in organized 5v5 play where range is a huge issue has so many issues you’d have to overcome. And at the end of the day the shotgun wouldn’t be a CQC killer like it is in most games and would mostly end up being a slug shooter. Which makes it more like a slow firing Dreiss than a shotgun. That’s why I wouldn’t mind seeing them being moved to the secondary slot and the shotguns being replaced with other/new smgs for those mercs. It resolves all of the range issues, gets rid of the super annoying pub play with shotguns and makes the secondary weapon choices incredibly more interesting.[/quote]

eh I don’t really agree but I won’t argue. I’m not smart enough to.

(Cuck) #7

[quote=“Amerika;181636”]I simply want them to become secondaries at some point and put on par with machine pistols. Trying to balance shotguns in a game like DB against ranged weapons where the shotgun is a primary weapon is virtually impossible. As a somewhat weaker secondary it could very easily be balanced.

A gun like the Ahnuld could exist as a primary…possibly a slug-type weapon that does have legit range. But not all of the shotguns can be like that as the game currently plays.[/quote]

i thought anhuld has fletcher rounds like needle rounds?
i mean thats why they call fletcher a fletcher yes?

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;29409”]So first of all, @Eox came up with this, not me, I’m just too lazy to find the thread.

But basically, here’s how it works, we are going to fix shotguns by changing the way damage is calculated.

For starters, most of the guns have range, the deal x amount of damage till they hit y distance, then fall off occurs.

Shotguns don’t really follow this law very well, since they fire a bunch of pellets rather than single shot.

So, the only way to fix them, is by doing this.

Red Pellet - Center pellet, does 100% of the base damage, let’s just say for now, it is 17, so a headshot does 34
Blue Pellets - These pellets do 75% of the base damage, so each pellet does 13 damage, headshots do 26
Green Pellets - These pellets do 50% of the base damage, so each pellet does 9 damage, headshots do 18.

This way, the center pellet still does enough effective damage to be useful and reward aim, while the outermost pellets suffer from damage reduction. In total, this single shotgun blast would do 145 damage to the body, enough to kill a Fragger, assuming all pellets hit the body. This of course is rather difficult to do so I imagine it would be too gamebreaking at all.

But the goal here is to make the shotguns much more competitive than previously, by doing it in this manner we allow them all to be balanced out by still rewarding accuracy, but also encouraging the up close and personal style that shotguns are known for.

With this in mind, I say the Shotguns have the following.

Ahnuld

  • Rate of fire is now 500 ms
  • Base damage is 13, total damage per blast to the body is 98
  • Spread is the tightest

Hollunds

  • Rate of fire is now 666 ms
  • Base damage is 17, total damage per blast to the body is 127
  • Spread is wider than the Ahnuld

Remburg

  • Rate of fire is now 750 ms
  • Base damage is 20, total damage per blast to the body is 145
  • Spread is wider than the Hollunds

All of them have the same pellet count.

What do you think?[/quote]

i think if they change the anhuld and the long shotgun to shot a solid slug or discarding sabot slug, you can actually deal more damage per shot rather small pellets that doesnt do much damage.