Sooo now that Thunder is on an about, what are your thoughts on Rhino?
I personally think his walk speed with the minigun spinning should be the same as his walk speed with it equiped, at the price of not being able to jump or sprint with it equiped anymore, To quote another discussion I had made about Rhino before Thunder was announced:
Rhino’s walk-speed with his minigun revved should be slow it seams a bit too slow for the game’s general pace.
his role is to lead an attack and soak up damage or be a good damage taking tank when defending, these two which he can do little of if his enemies aim for his head which in turn is easy to hit due to his almost non-existant speed (with his minigun revved), maybe this could be an augment for him in the near future, as he walks slowly with his minigun equiped, which I think I could be wrong about and even slower still when it is winding up but moves at a decent pace with a melee weapon equipped, I understand this would really go against the character’s downside but he seams practically immobile which does show a lot in many games when someone uses Rhino, making a sort of pocket medic to force feed him medpacks by the bunches an absolute necesity rather than a good suggestion
In Short: Seeing many cases, Rhino, while his walk speed is right for his health category, with his minigun revved he’s practically a sitting duck and can’t soak up damage due to his head being such an easy target, while the downside makes sense, the movement speed with his minigun revved is too slow along with the obvious fact that he now has, quoting @Amerika [quote] Giant ass Vegas-style sign on them saying, “please grenade here”.
If there is a speed decrease when the minigun is equipped (Is there or is it the same as him with a shotgun?) it’d be great for it to be the same as if it’s revved, if not (it being revved makes Rhino walk at a snail’s pace) it seams to be too slow.[/quote]
I’m making this discussion now that Thunder is on due to fact that his loadouts with an LMG a pretty good and with concussion grenades in effect, who needs to soak up that extra 40 damage in a team vs team engagement when the enemy can’t see you and deployables are now deactivated?
As soon as I started reading, the term ‘sitting duck’ came to mind for Rhino, and then that is exactly the term the poster used.
Rhino w/ minigun is exactly that: A sitting duck.
His spread and damage seem to be less than than TF2’s Heavy, but I haven’t played TF2 in while so I could be wrong.
Also, TF2’s Heavy can keep the barrel spinning at max speed with no toggling and no forced firing. I would actually like to see that implemented, as it means instant fire for corner work, or any case, and would make him more dangerous.
With as easy as he is to kill, a 50% HP increase, plus the barral spin tweak I mention and also a burst movement augment (like TF2) would not be overpowered, imo.
It would simply mean that enemies would have to actually treat him like a heavy weapons guy and use caution, instead of the underpowered slug that he is.
For example, a 15 second cooldown for a 2-3 second speed increase (to Rhino run speed) while firing the minigun.
People will complain, yes, but he is just way too easy to kill, and he’s not supposed to be.
In my experience, Rhino seems to be the most underplayed Merc, and I have no doubt that these weaknesses are the reason.
If Rhino had normal speed when spinning the minigun his peeking potential would be INSANE. Peek out, burst-HS for 100hp damage, hide back in. There would be NO counter to Rhino in close quarters. The fact that Rhino is slowed down when spinning/firing is absolutely necessary to allow opponents some time to react.
IMO Rhino in theory sounds good, 200HP, minigun and powerful primary’s and to balance, has a slow movement speed. The practical problem with him being that because he’s so slow, It’s not that hard to hit constant headshots and in fletchers case, it’s pretty easy to land 2 sticky bombs on him and kill him without much hassle.
I also think part of the problem is PUB matches because Rhino to be his best needs either a Aura or Sawbonez with him for constant heals. In most PUBs if there is a medic chances are they’re not gonna follow you around the whole game.
He’s more viable in a proper 5v5 competitive game, where you know your friend is gonna heal the the crap out of you and even then he’s still not THAT good. (I think i’ve only seen one competitive match where an Aura + Rhino combo was set up on the first stage of Bridge)
TLDR; Rhino is best with a medic which your not gonna get in PUBs (often) and because he’s so slow he’s VERY easy to kill with sticky, frags, headshots
Wouldn’t you guys agree that that the low percentage of playtime for Rhino is indicative of an underpowered class? I think that is the red flag.
If he were more balanced and viable, he would be played more, but most nights the only time I see him is if I use him. He’s a rare Merc on the field. He’s dead weight.
For this game’s pace he by default moves pretty slow, thus easy to catch off guard, there are many mercs available that can use explosives and a couple that have long range weapons available, which have been made clear as the best way to defeat a Rhino.
He’s pretty large and easy to notice due to his minigun’s noise when revved, it lacks range unless one taps their fire button once every 1.5 seconds and that would be at most at close-mid range.
His higher health is null due to his almost non-existant movement speed with the minigun revved, which announces his presence leading to enemies knowing full well of him being around to find a way to blow him up or come around him from another angle and just headshot him which basically means he has 100 health.
Finally he’s easily counterable at close quarters with explosives, which like I said before there are many of and in a head on fire-fight it’s pretty obvious that’s meant to be his forte.
[quote=“Col_Jack_ONeill;114989”]
TLDR; Rhino is best with a medic which your not gonna get in PUBs (often) and because he’s so slow he’s VERY easy to kill with sticky, frags, headshots[/quote]
True, It is mentioned he’s best used with a medic but it’s almost manditory to have a medic if someone is going to play Rhino and have them as an almost personal healer buddy, mostly Sawbonez when attacking or Aura when defending, but the same can be said about any other assault with good co-operation with a medic; In cases with a K51 Fragger loadout I can pretty much say it beats to have a more accurate LMG and the ability to throw grenades next to a healing station, rather than a Rhino with an A61 or R93, with increased minigun fire time and faster minigun wind up respectively.
I’m bringing this thread up as I said earlier, why have a character who’s main disadvantage is to move slow, made even slower and obvious when activating his main ability and have his advantage of high health be meaningless when he can’t move at well to dodge bullets coming to his head thus having a maditory medic by their side.
When you can just have:
Nader a character that can fire multiple grenades from longer ranges or indoors around corners.
Fragger a character that can toss a more powerful grenade that can be cooked.
Thunder one that can blind everyone, decrease their mouse sensisitivty and deactivate deployables for a moment.
Who all due to their faster speeds even Nader moving at her default speed with her launcher equiped who don’t need a medic maditorily by their side.
@spaceboy
He can keep the barrels spun by having the RMB pressed, but comparing the TF2 heavy and Rhino just comes to the fact that they both have miniguns and high health for their respective games.
Comparing walk speeds, The Heavy walks much faster than Rhino with his minigun revved, it’s not exactly his walk speed without the minigun spinning but much faster than Rhino by comparison.
Rhino walks much slower with his minigun revved in a game about faster paced movement than TF2 and unlike TF2 every weapon does headshot damage, unlike only the the sniper rifles and a single revolver, both used by frailer classes, the Sniper and Spy Respectively which if done right can kill the Heavy in a single hit, the Sniper if he were to fully charge his sniper rifles, and the Spy via a backstab or even 3 headshots with his sniping revolver against the heavy.
On the other hand theres a mixed bag on Heavy’s minigun and Rhino’s minigun as to which you could call better, The TF2 one does have a wider spread but it’s a constant specific spread, while the one in Dirty Bomb has a spread that increases the more it’s fired, but also while the TF2 minigun has 200 ammo multiplied by 4-6 shots per “ammo” the Dirty Bomb minigun shoots one shot at a time, but doesn’t have ammo but a cooldown meter.
@sentimentalDime Competative or not, his low movement speed is really his only understandable disadvantage and like I said, he moves even slower with his minigun equiped in a game that has a more fast paced playstyle than others, Thats why I suggested that he shouldn’t sprint or jump/wall jump with it equiped.
Maybe if he weren’t to walk as fast as he has it equiped when it is revved, at least a tad faster?
