Let's discuss current state of Assault mercs

(Ritobasu) #1

Now that Thunder is finally out, I think this presents a good opportunity to see balancing issues not from the perspective of one mercenary, but in relation to his peers.

Let’s look at the first Assault Merc, Fragger. Most of us would agree that he’s king of Assaults right now due to his combination of versatility, tankiness, and access to both powerful abilities and primaries. The M4 is the most solid weapon in the game, and the less accessible but more rewarding KE-121 dishes out some serious damage. I don’t think anybody appreciates how he dominates the meta in 5v5 matchmaking, but arguments happen over whether to nerf him, buff the other Assault mercs, or a combination of both. I’m for the last option, and I’ll explain that in a bit.

Rhino. This guy is a nightmare if played well, and becomes a serious force multiplier if he pockets a medic, especially Aura or Sawbonez. Even at ranges outside CQC, players might find their health drained quickly if fully exposed and gunned down in short bursts. 200HP is a lot to shred through, but Rhino isn’t totally invincible. He’s also extremely vulnerable while spinning his minigun, since being planted on the ground to a near halt makes headshotting him easy. Kiting a Rhino around corners and cover something every merc is capable of doing, except Rhino himself. And of course, his minigun isn’t really a threat at much longer ranges.

Nader has the distinct trait of being the most agile and squishy of Assaults. As an explosives specialist, she gets compared a lot to Fragger. While she may not instantly clear a room as quickly, she’s excels at constant, indirect area denial, using her ability to deal damage and/or “herd” an enemy into a favorable situation. A second perk of her grenade launcher is that a full volley can do some damage to the EV/generators. SMGs and a 120hp pool means she’s just as vulnerable as most classes up close, and her grenades don’t arm past a certain distance, opening up chances to counterplay. Her Martyrdom deserves some mention, because even if most players know to steer clear from her, they absolutely MUST respect her ability to deal tremendous AOE damage if not finished quickly. This isn’t just to break up chokepoints if she manages to break in, but can be used to destroy objectives as well. Right now, I believe she’s in a solid spot and is probably the most well-balanced of Assault Mercs.

Next post is exclusively for Thunder.

(Ritobasu) #2

Thunder’s the newest Assault on the scene, and probably needs more extensive playtime before people make up their minds about him. There are, however, several “glaring” issues that need to be seriously addressed.

  • Concussion grenades working inconsistently: I’ve experienced this several times where me and friends would CG and land a direct hit on a group of enemies, charge in, and promptly get hosed down. We finally figured out after taking enemy CGs that they don’t always blind if you’re not looking directly at them; if it explodes and the splash makes contact on an enemy FROM BEHIND, it will induce the concussion effects (movement speed debuff, no sprinting allowed, reduced mouse sensitivity) but not inflict total blindness.

  • Concussion grenades blinding from far, far away: Self-explanatory. I’d throw CGs quite a distance only to blind myself for 3-5 seconds. I believe the devs confirmed this is a bug that they will fix later.

  • Concussion grenades hindering teammates: Your team won’t be fully blinded if they look at a CG up close, but they will definitely see a bright flash with a bleached screen for 5-6 seconds after. This should not happen, period. Don’t kill Thunder’s teamwork potential and his ability to help in a firefight, when other mercs can just as easily pitch in without screwing their teammates. Your teammates should still see a flash, but there should be minimal or NO screen bleaching occurring for them.

  • Giant hitbox combined with a slower speed. Suffers the same issues as Rhino but without the massive firepower up close to beat out others.

  • Primary weapons are not as competitive: Many people are going to compare him to Fragger, for good reason. Nearly same HP pool and movespeed, throwable grenade abilities on the same cooldown, and access to an LMG, automatic AR, and burst AR. Right now, the community opinion on M4 vs Timik is leaning towards the M4 because Timik doesn’t provide enough benefits for the loss in recoil control and spread. And it’s looking to be the same way for the Mk46 vs KE-121, but in a different way.

The Mk46 has a monster mag size, much higher RPM (725RPM vs 477RPM), but deals significantly less damage than the KE-121 (11 dmg vs 17 dmg). Overall DPS is at 133, while the KE-121 is at 135. The Mk46 is meant to be a more accessible bullet hose in tradeoff for lesser damage and dps, but I still think it should be made STRONGER than it is currently. Yes, a KEK-10 with a 85 round box mag sounds ridiculous on paper but there needs to be an important distinction made with Fragger and Thunder’s primaries. I sincerely believe Thunder should have access to noticeably higher DPS weapons, since his ability is non lethal and requires him to go inside and do the dirty work with a primary. Fragger on the other hand is capable of OHKOing an entire group with a well placed nade, so he should possess solid and reliable primaries with less DPS.

(Ritobasu) #3

My suggested changes for Assault classes:

Fragger:

  • Grenade dropping mechanic: If an enemy catches a Fragger priming his grenade, he should be vulnerable to dropping it if he takes enough damage. This opens him to counterplay in a similar way to Nader, where catching him off guard will severely hamper his ability. No more getting cheesed if someone can read a Fragger nade being primed and charges in to stop him from throwing. I’d say start from a 60 damage threshold, enough so that significant damage is dealt to make him drop it but a scratch or stray bullet won’t.

Rhino:

  • Buff base movespeed by 10 to 360. He’ll have a slightly easier time running to and from battles, and flanking enemy positions.
  • Increase movement speed while spinning minigun by 20%.
  • Allow Rhino to jump and walljump while spinning and firing the minigun. These last two changes are to give him an additional edge in movement against much more mobile mercs in CQC and to avoid being a stationary target, but jumping will SIGNIFICANTLY increase the spread of his minigun.
  • Minigun spin-up time decreased from 1s to 0.7s.
  • Nitro Boost and Ice Cold augments added to more Rhino cards.
  • Nitro Boost only decreases spin-up time by 30% (down from 50%).
  • Ice Cold now affects the spread increase of the minigun, improving the spread penalty by 40%. Continuous fire will be much more accurate, so watch out!

Nader:

  • Allow Martyrdom to gib again like pre-CW update. Seriously, stay away from her when she’s down or it’ll be a permanent mistake.

Thunder:

  • Buff base movespeed by 10 to 380. He’ll still have to deal with being a big fat target, but he’ll nearly match Fragger in speed to help dodge bullets.
  • Concussion grenades will inflict full to near blind if a player successfully lands a concussion, regardless of where the enemy is looking.
  • Enemy players hit by the concussion splash will have their mouse sensitivity further reduced. Not only should you be nearly or completely blinded, your ability to fight back should be significantly reduced by a well-thrown CG.
  • Concussion grenades will no longer bleach friendly teammate screens.
  • Grenade dropping mechanic: If an enemy catches a Thunder priming his Concussion grenade, he’ll be vulnerable to dropping it if he takes enough damage past a certain threshold (60hp). If he’s forced to drop his Concussion grenade, it will only blind himself, bleach (but not blind) the screen of the enemy that’s shooting him, and the enemy’s teammates will be completely unaffected.

Misc.

  • Rebalancing of augmentation cards and loadouts for all Mercs to reflect Thunder’s well-balanced cards. For example, Explodey + Unshakeable with M4 Fragger shouldn’t be allowed to exist. Explodey + Unshakeable with SMG9 Nader is fine. Nitro Boost should DEFINITELY not exist with new Ice Cold on Rhino, etc.
  • Timik: RPM increased from 550 to 570. This should bring its DPS up to 133, and will definitely overpower the M4 in close range.
  • Mk46: Magazine size decreased from 85 to 80, RPM decreased from 725 to 700, damage increased from 11 to 12, effective range decreased from 26m to 23m. This will boost its DPS from 133 to 140, and make it absolutely clear that it will shred the KE-121 or any other guns up close in skilled hands.
(wolvie) #4

O.o Lotta words

(Reddeadcap) #5

I’ve made a thread looking at Rhino post Thunder release, just have to say that my personal opinion on the matter is that he should move at his default speed while it’s revved, or maybe just faster, if he moves at his default weapon held speed make it that he can’t jump or sprint with his minigun in hand.

(Sir_Slam) #6

The nade dropping will never happen. No one would play Fragger in fear of destroying their own team on a dropped nade.

Hell a single Vassili or Redeye could make it a point to poke at Fragger. Wouldn’t even need a headshot, just pop him in the chest and watch him kill himself.

That would be frustrating as shit and counter intuitive.

Same goes for Thunder. Although if his weapon is as weak as you suggest (haven’t played him) then it needs to be brought up a ton. It should outclass the K-121 by a smidge to aid in the slaughter.

(Ritobasu) #7

[quote=“Sir_Slam;115450”]The nade dropping will never happen. No one would play Fragger in fear of destroying their own team on a dropped nade.

Hell a single Vassili or Redeye could make it a point to poke at Fragger. Wouldn’t even need a headshot, just pop him in the chest and watch him kill himself.

That would be frustrating as shit and counter intuitive.[/quote]
I should clarify, the dropped Fragger nade will not harm his teammates, just only the Fragger himself. Perhaps both dropped grenades should have their fuse timer restarted back to 3s? That way, it gives some time for Fragger and Thunder to escape if their abilities get stuffed

And yeah, the bit with sniper rifles bodyshotting to make Fragger drop his grenade should be addressed. Maybe up the damage cap to 81? It’ll take a minimum of 2-3 shots from a Grandeur, 1-2 shots from the PDP, and definitely a well-placed headshot from bolt actions to drop a grenade.

That’s way too much speed combined with that much firepower. He should stay relatively the same speed as is, and spinning his minigun should always slow him down.

(WaffleMonster) #8

The relatively recent changes to explosion physics was a real blow to fragger. Along with the introduction of stoker, he is not as strong a pick as he used to be (don’t get me wrong, he is still one of the best killing mercs in the game but that’s his sole job).

(Bojangles) #9

[quote=“Ritobasu;115245”]
Fragger:

  • Grenade dropping mechanic: If an enemy catches a Fragger priming his grenade, he should be vulnerable to dropping it if he takes enough damage. [/quote]

I strongly agree with Sir_Slam on this one. This mechanic would make Fragger/Thunder completely and utterly frustrating to play. I do not even play either of them, but this feels like it would be too punishing of a change.

I disagree with the points I left in the box above and I’ll address them in the order shown.
-Increasing the movement speed while spinning by 20% sounds like a bit much. I’m not entirely opposed to increasing it at all, I’m just hesitant to give it a solid 1/5th boost.
-Please don’t make him more difficult to kill; giving him additional mobility while spinning (even if it detracts from accuracy) doesn’t need to be done to an almost literal tank. Doing would almost remove his counters (snipers & explosives)
-I feel like his spin-up time is just fine, others may disagree and that’s fine. I have no real argument for that.
-He does not need any more killing potential. You said so yourself, he can deplete your health quickly from an ok distance already with short bursts.

I am still opposed to this idea.

I appreciate you tossing some ideas out there, and I do feel like some of them aren’t bad suggestions. The rest though I feel are a bit too extreme for me.

(watsyurdeal) #10

To be honest the only merc that needs work is Rhino, Thunder is filled with bugs atm, so I say wait till those are fixed before you jump to conclusions. But I can already see a ton of uses for him with clever concussion use, blind a team pushing out before you and your team mates come around the corner to clean up. Getting rid of Auras camping on their healing stations, getting rid of mines and turrets on the points, and so on.

He’s definitely got some use, and I think people jump to conclusions way too quickly as if the merc doesn’t have a skill floor. Even Fragger had one, your frags still took some time to get used to, as well the K 121.

(CCP115) #11

It’s an interesting post, but you seem to buffing Rhino far too much. He’s just incredibly good with a decent backing team, and terrible by himself. Leave it that way.

As for Thunder, I strongly believe flashes should affect teammates, just not to the extent of enemies. A small flash of .5 seconds would be enough, and no movement or mouse movement impairs.

(titaniumCrouton) #12

Interesting points, not sure how I feel on them though. That said if you want to buff Thunder’s LMG then by all means. I still stand by the fact it’s extremely strong, especially in skilled hands. But if the people wanna make it stronger…

I won’t complain, i’ll just reap the benefits xP. But that is just me.

I agree Rhino does need buffs though…and that is as someone who utterly HATES rhino players D:

(Gung-ho) #13

I don’t think Rhino needs buffs - he needs a redesign. Right now Rhino is strong in his niche but that’s it. When an assault merc is designed to be defensive you’re hindered with buffing/nerving options. Buffs could easily see Rhino go from niche to so good it doesn’t matter quite easily.

The quick and nasty redesign would be to take away 2 of shotguns and replace them with a dreiss and grandeur. I’d also replace the third shotgun he has but there’s no 3rd weapon of the semi-auto iron sights category.

That way Rhino has proper mediun/long range threat which means he won’t be a burden when on attack. In fact a merc with grandeur and 200hp and a chain gun is a bullet shooting nightmare.