You’re mixing some warping into latency there, warping is hands down bad of course. But again, high ping doesn’t always mean warping. I agree with you for being unable to dodge yes, but otherwise there’s no reason they can’t fire a shotgun shot as they see the high ping player come around the corner and kill them before the server tells them they would have been killed.
But I agree, the fact that you lose your ability to dodge outplay your opponent is huge, as it is one of the biggest parts of CQC. For that reason alone lag compensation for be gutted yes.
Believe me I don’t support people playing on high ping at all, I said already - here or some other thread - that I reckon if you can’t play under 100 ping you just shouldn’t play.
[quote=“ChinaRep;28688”]It’s not just getting shot around corners that’s annoying. When one person has high ping, the game is annoying to play and inconsistent for everyone including the guy with high ping. The notion that people with 150+ ping should be able to play against low ping players without any disadvantage is ridiculous. I know not everyone can afford good internet, but accommodating people that simply aren’t equipped to play online games at the expense of people who do have the equipment to play them makes about as much sense as an ice hockey league making their players use regular shoes because some people can’t afford decent skates.
@Amerika Having scrimmed EU teams both with high ping against their low ping and the other way around, I can assure you that the game is much less consistent because of the lag compensation. It’s not that bad, BF4 for example is way worse, but it’s definitely noticeable and makes gunfights feel more like a coin toss than anything else. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard several dinks on my screen but then the guy with 200 ping kills me and apparently has full HP. [/quote]
Yes, it’s not perfect but it’s acceptable. It’s what allows people from EU to play on NA servers or similar situations. Most of the time the game plays completely normal. You will end up with a few times where you get a dink and no kill but find yourself dead. You get that as Vassili. However, that happens when both players have 50ms pings because it’s part of the rollback/prediction netcode. I too have played eu/na and it’s mostly fine but I only play on/against people who have 150 ping or less. Once we start going north of that mark the game gets pretty wonky a lot more often.
However, claiming that gunfights can be coin flips now is a bit absurd compared to how it would be if the netcode erred more towards the server side. You’d start to have to lead people a ton and strafing would become king in every fight as you’d just want to shoot for areas instead of directly at somebody like you have had to learn in other games. For example, Q3 is HIGHLY HIGHLY ping dependent. The Lightning Gun shows this off quite well as a player with 80 ping has to lead their target significantly where the person with a 20 ping barely has to lead at all. In Wolf players would strafe shoot a ton and barely touch their mouse when doing it because you wanted to shoot areas where heads could be rather than at a head. Due to the way DB is setup you can actually shoot at a target in a fight and win…even at high ping. Yes, again, there can be a few minor inconsistencies but you get used to it pretty quick.
In a perfect world we all want to be on LAN and have 0 ping. But I’d rather see a few inconsistencies than players simply not be allowed to fill up pub servers.
Getting shot behind walls is a necessary evil. I honestly don’t mind it because it is fair, and the alternative is horrible.
As for high ping causing rubber banding, that’s incorrect. What’s causing rubber banding is packet loss. High ping does not necessarily mean packet loss. You can have a good connection with high ping.
TF2 handles hitscan the same as DB, they’re very lenient, I’ve experienced 2-3000ms lag spikes in TF2 where I literary had to wait a few seconds after a headshot before the enemy died. But of course in TF2 some servers kick by ping, which is fine, as long is it’s not a low limit by default. Projectiles however are not lag compensated in TF2 because leading is already a requirement, so the lack of compensation is less noticeable and it also allows enemies to dodge them reliably.
High ping doesn’t give any benefits. Packet loss however can cause rubber banding and hitbox inconsistencies, so it can be a problem. I don’t know how playing with packet loss is in DB but for some games it’s worse to play with it than against it, still annoying though.
That’s not how it works. Try playing a game like BF4 that has a lot of lag compensation against high ping players and you’ll see they all play super aggressively. Why? Because with client side hitreg and high ping, whoever peeks has a huge advantage (the guy that peeks will see and be able to shoot the other player on their screen way before he sees them on their screen) and playing aggressively, jumping around corners constantly, etc. puts you in a situation where you’re always the one peeking.[/quote]
This is not entirely true. The one peeking the corner ALWAYS have the advantage, regardless of ping, regardless of lag compensation. That’s just how it is when you add latency to a multiplayer game. The thing is though, the advantage is greater the lower your ping is. Or actually the higher the ping disparity is between the players are, but the one with the low ping is the one with the biggest advantage.
Say high ping player runs around the corner, he sees you much sooner than you see him, but he can’t do damage to you until you see him. Now you run around the corner, you see him just as much earlier as he saw you when he ran around the corner, however you can actually do damage to him before he can see you. So yeah, the advantage still lays with the low ping player.
This. While high pingers may get some advantage here and there, there is just no way you would ever choose it over low ping. Low ping will always have the higher advantage.
[quote=“Litego;28922”]
Say high ping player runs around the corner, he sees you much sooner than you see him, but he can’t do damage to you until you see him. Now you run around the corner, you see him just as much earlier as he saw you when he ran around the corner, however you can actually do damage to him before he can see you. So yeah, the advantage still lays with the low ping player.[/quote]
Nonsense.
High pinger can pop out, shoot and run away, all while low ping wont even see him and he will still get hit due to lag compensation.
While technically low ping can shoot back, its more like “crystal ball” thing - you cant preventive shoot what you cant see.
On the other hand, low ping shooting high ping can often feel like hes shootign a wall, since hits dont register, since low ping shoots at lagger, or at least he think he is, but since lagger is moving, he essentially just waste ammo.
So, with lag compensation, depending on severity, lagger is always in advantage.
Must be lovely to live in a country / region (Europe/US) that always has players in the game. For a long time, Australia had no community and had to play on 250+ ping on US servers JUST to be able to even play the game.
Think of those in less fortunate area’s than yourself, are you willing to cripple their experience by either banning/kicking high ping players or reducing the interp in the game for your own selfish gain?
Suck it up, its worse to play on high ping than vs high ping players. Interp is apart of any modern game and I would say this game handles high ping so extremely well that it is possible for competitive games to occur across continents. (Euro vs USA vs ASIA vs AUS)
Yeah the game handles 450 pings this well, I nearly got kicked cause no one was able to hit me, while killing them, after beeing put on an aussie server.
You still will be able to put pressure on Nexon for some aussie-servers, and you yourself will be able to be the anchor of your local community. Cheers.
How about you stop beeeing so selfish and donate 90% of your income to less fortunate people living somewhere else, getting no money at all, but their lives, for their work?
PS: Sry, I really see your point, but you as australia is part of the 5-eyes, you support democracy? So ok…
And sry to be that bad buy, and half the stuff I said, forget it. But this amount of interpolation is bluntly ridiculous. HALF A SECOND REACTION TIME (as it seems to other players)… Try to handle this on german autobahn’s at speeds of 200kmh+ (thats roughly 120 miles+).
And btw: It’s no CS
[quote=“mf-;29096”]Must be lovely to live in a country / region (Europe/US) that always has players in the game. For a long time, Australia had no community and had to play on 250+ ping on US servers JUST to be able to even play the game.
Think of those in less fortunate area’s than yourself, are you willing to cripple their experience by either banning/kicking high ping players or reducing the interp in the game for your own selfish gain?
Suck it up, its worse to play on high ping than vs high ping players. Interp is apart of any modern game and I would say this game handles high ping so extremely well that it is possible for competitive games to occur across continents. (Euro vs USA vs ASIA vs AUS)[/quote]
Yeah, it sucks not being able to play the games you like. I’m actually from Australia originally, living in the US now, so I know all about that but the solution isn’t to implement a netcode that makes the game inconsistent for everyone, it’s to get servers in more regions even if that means lowering the server requirements for certain regions that are still building their infrastructure.
@Litego I never said it was always an advantage for the player with high ping. I said it made the gunfights feel like a cointoss, meaning they become inconsistent and it’s way harder to tell if you’re going to win or lose. From my experience, again I’ve played quite a bit with and against high ping, whoever peeks has the advantage and that the extent of this advantage is about the same for the low ping and the high ping players. I know it’s not conclusive evidence by any means, but whenever we’d scrim the same team twice, once in their region and once in ours, we’d perform roughly the same in both settings and it always felt pretty wonky.
Also, the thing about the high ping player not being able to do damage until after the low ping player sees him isn’t true and is what results in a high ping player peeking a low ping player, the low ping player getting several headshots on the high ping player, but then dying and seeing that the high ping player didn’t take any damage.
Yeah no. Not all regions. Seeing plenty of players on AUS servers with ping in excess of 300ms is a sure sign that your experience is going to be sub-par.
edit Not that that’s a strike against the netcode, but a ping filter would help weed these people out.
What about regions that have servers but do not have the local community / playerbase. This was Australia throughout the entire alpha / closed beta stage.
Yeah, it sucks not being able to play the games you like. I’m actually from Australia originally, living in the US now, so I know all about that but the solution isn’t to implement a netcode that makes the game inconsistent for everyone, it’s to get servers in more regions even if that means lowering the server requirements for certain regions that are still building their infrastructure.
[/quote]
What about regions that have servers but do not have the local community / playerbase. This was Australia throughout the entire alpha / closed beta stage.
[/quote]
Well it was a closed alpha so I was never expecting it to be populated. I was in Australia during the entirety of the alpha and I just accepted that I couldn’t play it with low ping. I was even disappointed when I realized I could play it just fine with high ping because as an ex bf competitive player I know exactly how bad over active lag compensation can be for a competitive game. If you didn’t ever play BF4 here’s an example of how hard the lag compensation messed things up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLDnKI200ng
[quote=“Dirmagnos;29064”][quote=“Litego;28922”]
Say high ping player runs around the corner, he sees you much sooner than you see him, but he can’t do damage to you until you see him. Now you run around the corner, you see him just as much earlier as he saw you when he ran around the corner, however you can actually do damage to him before he can see you. So yeah, the advantage still lays with the low ping player.[/quote]
Nonsense.
High pinger can pop out, shoot and run away, all while low ping wont even see him and he will still get hit due to lag compensation.
While technically low ping can shoot back, its more like “crystal ball” thing - you cant preventive shoot what you cant see.
On the other hand, low ping shooting high ping can often feel like hes shootign a wall, since hits dont register, since low ping shoots at lagger, or at least he think he is, but since lagger is moving, he essentially just waste ammo.[/quote]
BS. If hits weren’t registering then we wouldn’t have lag compensation, that’s what it does (Though with packet loss, not high ping, it can become inconsistent). As for feeling like you’re shooting a wall, that’s what happens when you’re the high pinger, doesn’t matter who you shoot, it takes longer for the server to relay info back to you so it feels like shooting walls, and you waste ammo. Shouldn’t be a problem for a low ping player. If it is it’s not cause of lag compensation, it’s because of how the game relays information.
So, with lag compensation, depending on severity, lagger is always in advantage.
That’s just straight up ignorance. Educate yourself. Stop basing your “facts” on subjective feelings.
It’s not entirely true, but almost. Let’s take a closer look. Player A has 200ms ping, player B has 10ms ping, reaction time is 200ms and it takes 100ms of firing to kill the enemy.
High ping peeks the corner:
0ms Player A peeks the corner.
100ms The server sees player A round the corner and relay that info to player B.
105ms player B sees player A round the corner.
200ms Player A start shooting.
300ms The server sees player A shooting and applies damage to player B.
305ms Player B receives damage from the server and start shooting.
310ms The server sees player B shooting and applies damage to player A.
400ms The server kills player B.
405ms Player B dies on his screen.
410ms Player A receives damage from the server and should have died if player B was still alive.
Advantage: 10ms (equal to the ping of the opponent)
Low ping peeks the corner:
0ms Player B peeks the corner.
5ms The server sees player B round the corner and relay that info to player A.
105ms player A sees player B round the corner.
200ms Player B start shooting.
205ms The server sees player B shooting and applies damage to player A.
305ms Player A receives damage from the server and start shooting. The server kills player A.
405ms The server sees player A shooting and does nothing cause player A is already dead. Player A dies on his screen. Player B never take any damage.
Advantage: 100ms (equal to half the ping of the opponent)
That’s not taking tick rate into account, so the numbers will vary. But that’s the general gist. And as you can see, the low ping player has a clear advantage when peeking compared to a high ping player peeking, though the one peeking always have the advantage. And yeah, if the TTK was longer than half the ping of the high ping player, he would be able to do damage to the low ping player, so my original statement was not entirely true as you pointed out.
[quote=“ChinaRep;29170”]as an ex bf competitive player I know exactly how bad over active lag compensation can be for a competitive game. If you didn’t ever play BF4 here’s an example of how hard the lag compensation messed things up
[/quote]
Lag compensation wasn’t the problem in BF4. The problem was low tick rate, server ignoring packets, server lag, and possibly the server applying damage to opponents after a players death (seems like it considering the extremely high amounts of kill trades). I doubt the kill trades were only to blame due to the tick rate. If we’re trying to make the game as fair as possible than yeah, applying damage after death is fair, but it is extremely annoying and this game doesn’t do that.
As for dying behind walls, that happens in every game that has lag compensation and is completely fair, but it’s a little more extreme in BF4 because of the insane server lag. Sure it can be annoying, but I have zero sympathy for people who rage about that because the alternative is that you start leading your shots with every weapon. And I’m not taking about leading it like a projectile like in BF4, but based on ping, which means you lead the same amount regardless of distance to target, extremely annoying.
Can confirm this happens often in BF, and it NEVER should. The moment a player is found to be dead by the server all their incoming damage should be ignored. Otherwise it’s extremely easy to exploit and also just pisses players off. They seem to do it so people can feel good about themselves like ‘yeah I totally got that one’, not a good idea.
I have got killed several times in this game after my own death…and i have killed several players after my death(with guns btw)… We just call it kill trade n laugh it off and best part is that both parties would be having below 50ms latency (at worst times 80 ms or when im downloading something, 130ms)
But there are times when connecting routing wana FFup, giving me 350ms+ out of nowhere (Restarting modem 2-3 times would fix it) BUTTT, with 350ms, im headshot hero in this game…
Also while im perfectly fine with 40ms playing, and after death when im spectating 80ms (or 80+) players, i can see that they are actually aiming behind a player …i mean the cross hair would be out of the players body , like 2-3cm to left side away from the player , if the player is moving left…and still getting the kill…
So as far as i know, the NET CODE ON DB WORKS PERFECTLY F I N E !
That’s because the spectator client is not lag compensated, you see what the server sees before lag comp is applied. They are actually hitting the target on their screen. If someone were to spectate you, they’d see you missing all your shots too. It’s pretty shit and they need to fix that.
