Knife Range (Now with more screenshots and sunshine)

(ImageOmega) #1

I am new to the alpha and I was out of town all weekend (plus some), but I have already heard so much talk about the knife. There was a new topic started today! Does the knife do a lot of damage? Sure. Do a lot of people die to the knife because backpedal movement speed is slower than getting the lights back on for the Super Bowl? Absolutely. But, that is not the point of this post.

Myself, Valdez, and Evil-Doer took it upon ourselves to jump around and test a few mechanics. One thing we were really curious about was the actual range your model is away from happy stabbing enthusiast. After a few whimsical knife happy rounds in Dirty Bomb you wonder about these things.

Below I present to you screenshots of the range from which we are actually able to stab each other (RMB or LMB - both proved to be the same distance). Looking over the screenshots you can see that the player models are no where close enough to each other to make actual “contact” with outstretched knife wielding arms, but were close enough to stab some flesh anyways. I’ll let you analyze the rest of the screenshots for yourself.

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(INF3RN0) #2

Not to mention RMB does way too much DPS. Why ever use LMB?

(Mustang) #3

Interesting, I only use primary fire mainly because I find secondary far too slow for how I’d like it to be.

The animation also looks and feels nicer to me on primary.

(Humate) #4

Its even more ridiculous when the victim is high ping. :wink:

(Hundopercent) #5

If they reduce the range any further the knife will be worthless. The range right now is fine they need to fix the DPS or the backpedal speed.

(Evil-Doer) #6

I’m leaning more towards less range maybe higher damage? Just looking at that distant seems a little much. Before you could just snag someone from a football field away with it. The issue with backing up is definitely a great point…you can’t even avoid the attack back stepping because it’s so slow.

(INF3RN0) #7

Less range perhaps just because it’s still very long. Damage is 2 hits already on RMB and shouldn’t be any higher. I’d even go for a slightly longer delay between knife hits on alt knife. The LMB knife could use a buff in attack speed perhaps, if range is reduced. Knife won’t be worthless, but people just won’t be able to run head on into people with a knife… don’t see anything wrong with that.

(Apples) #8

Nerf it for game’s sake, I’m not playing a sword game…

(Mustang) #9

Less range, but only slightly, 20% reduction at a guess.

Would be nice if slash could have a slight buff to damage as well.

And secondary backstap should be one hit kill.

(INF3RN0) #10

[QUOTE=Mustang;425226]

And secondary backstap should be one hit kill.[/QUOTE]

It is, however that’s not the real issue. It’s pretty easy to kill someone in 2 RMB knife hits than it is for someone to kill a knifer with their gun. This is a combination of both back pedal speed and the knife range/damage. In ETQW knifing someone was actually a fulfilling accomplishment because it was fairly difficult to pull off, while in DB it’s a war between the Iron Chef medics.

(stealth6) #11

I basically want the W:ET knife back that was so much fun (“stabby stab”) so:

  • decrease damage from the front dramatically
  • increase attack speed
  • decrease distance range
  • use the hitting range (the fov in which it hits) of the second animation (basically just crosshair)
  • make a more ridiculous animation
(Anti) #12

There are more changes to it in the next patch

(maxxxxlol) #13

Dont forget the goat sound for stabs in the back.

(Mustang) #14

You should be able to kite someone charging at you with a knife, so bumping backpedal speed is really needed for this.

(Hundopercent) #15

Reducing the range is going to make gibbing bodies even more of a pain in the ass. -_-

(Anti) #16

I meant the next patch, I didn’t realize we were sneaking out the new one that went live today. Don’t kill me! :slight_smile:

(ImageOmega) #17

I think reducing the knife range as far as actual combatants is a good thing. Not reducing it, obviously makes it easier to knife people. But, then what are we trying to preserve here? The ability to go around and play like you’re Jason from Friday the 13th?

Getting a knife kill in Battlefield 3 was one of the most satisfying things to me. I would actually avoid a firefight to get a knife kill, but it was mostly due to the animations involved. Nothing like ripping a player from his pov to watching an up close shot of you stabbing a knife into his heart. So, the knife, up close from the side/back (though there was a diagonal side/front too), became an instant kill. However, the tradeoff was the incredibly long animation of you slowly plunging a knife into the lungs of your enemy (or throat or whatever other great random animation there was). This momentarily made you a sitting target and if there was another enemy around they could either kill you before the animation finished (saving their teammate) or finish you off as you took his teammate’s last breath.
BF3 Knife Kills Video

This type of tradeoff does not happen in Dirty Bomb. Obviously, you have to figure out how to close the gap, but there is not the same element of surprise. If I am running around a tight corridor and someone is waiting with a knife when I turn to fire on them I still risk getting two RMB knife stabs before I can backpedal (due to its slow nature) and kill the enemy with my gun. So, the option for me typically becomes to fire until they eventually close the distance and I try to RMB them first or hopefully did enough damage with my gun that my RMB attack takes only one shot. The factor of the range being so long that you are able to knife someone without actually even touching them throws these situations in the favor of the knife attacker.

Another game I like to use as an example of having fun with the knife (or melee weapon in this case) is QuakeLive (or Q3). Getting a gauntlet kill is both humiliating and satisfying. However, avoiding the gauntlet can be easy because of fast movement (especially backward movement) and short range on the part of the gauntlet. The damage of the gauntlet was actually quite high (50 per hit), but spawning with extra health or having armor helped players survive it. Also, the gauntlet actually pushes the target away when it hits preventing for a quick second hit. Because of these things I liken the gauntlet more towards the LMB knife attack instead of RMB. It did quick damage, but took quite a bit of hits in order to actually kill someone who had full health and armor.
QuakeLive Gauntlet Wiki
3rd Person Gaunt Vid

I am not advocating that Dirty Bomb needs to be like QuakeLive or BF3, but I think there are queues from both that can be taken into consideration when factoring in how deadly the knife should be. If the knife was like BF3 with the extra kill animations, I would honestly be pretty giddy because I think that game had the most satisfying melee kill I have experienced in any other game before it. But, all that may somehow seem out of place in Dirty Bomb… I do believe that the RMB should be a quick kill, but maybe the damage should be high based on hitting the person in the back instead of when you’re facing them. Basically, keep the 60 damage with RMB, but only if you knife them in the back, and reduce it to the 30 damage like the LMB if you hit them in the front. Just an idea, obviously I am anxious to see what the next patch holds as well.

This is a consideration, but I think if you’re crouching and on top of the body to gib it should still be pretty effortless. I don’t think the range of the knife should be reduced drastically anyways, just more so that it matches up to your actual distance from the enemy.