Kills are strategic; K/DR is a vital statistic

(Ero-Sennin) #41

np oschino, anyway there is stuff that i agree with you. Frankie just made me go WTF? I didnt meant hate or anything. peace out:D

(Oschino1907) #42

[QUOTE=legend123;331640]I am sorry TC and all those who want Kills/Deaths including myself.

But no amount of logic will change there minds.

I am just going to assume these people who are against KD are either
1)awful at this game
2)have never played W:ET or ETWQ or other team based games which were just fine with KDs in them.[/QUOTE]

And those games were primarily PC only games and didnt have or attract the COD/Halo Style of gamers. This game does/did and its meant to be a multiplat game and on console its well known that those types of games harbor non team playing gloaters and talker downs and almost all the trash talk is based around KDR. Its just the point that there is more negative to be found then positive and the only things i could think to make it possible at all would be to make it personal info only, so long as that doesnt lead to harrassment when someone doesnt reveal info. I used to feel the same as you in some regards but over time found it better overall for communities to not have to much weight thrown into a single and very objective stat.

(Je T´aime) #43

Or do it TF2 style just kills counts no deaths, that way its not K/D and pleases both sides, and tbh dudes that are just killing enemys are a big help to the team, because it makes it a lot easier to do the objectives.

(AmishWarMachine) #44

+1 disagree with OP

(Aristotle) #45

[QUOTE=legend123;331640]I am sorry TC and all those who want Kills/Deaths including myself.

But no amount of logic will change there minds.

I am just going to assume these people who are against KD are either
1)awful at this game
2)have never played W:ET or ETWQ or other team based games which were just fine with KDs in them.[/QUOTE]

I can really care less about whether or not people are able to see their K/D ratio. I was just responding to the OP that killing isn’t everything. Also, with the example I gave about the player not having any kills and still having completed objectives, that doesn’t mean he had to have the “lone wolf” players on his team. He could have had people with a pretty much even K/D ratio and still accomplish the objectives. It’s all about timing.

Oh, and in ETQW most of the people who cared about their K/D Ratio as much as the OP seems to mainly joined the same teams and did nothing but kill and left the objectives alone, leaving it up to their team to finish them, which again, doesn’t always guarantee a win.

I will tell you that the last year or so in QW after competition was over all I did was play for kills, and I had a blast with some friends. There was a bot named Nigel that would spam the top three K/D Ratios every map, and that’s what we played for. But I will say that I got yelled at a lot by other players for not helping the team, so I can see where the others concerns are coming from.

(AmishWarMachine) #46

Why is the perfunctory response to people that don’t like/want KDR in Brink (or other objective-driven games) to lash out with “They must suck”?

I never have gotten that.

Seems like a Straw Man tactic, to me.

(Herandar) #47

I’m inclined to agree with Mr. Godskin. There is no reason to for the aggression inherent in many posts on this thread. Most of you are adults. Keep it civil, or the thread will be closed. Thank you.

(legend123) #48

I think this is the last time I will say this.

The games Cod and Halo players left long ago. Why do you think this game is almost dead aside from the fact is has a billion different flaws?
17,000->3,000(at best) on PC. They saw there was no kd, they saw it was teambased and not a deathmatch, etc.

I honestly dont give a **** about console players. If Halo and Cod players play that game than leave kd out of consoles.

But on PC we dont have those players anyway. There is no reason to leave it out as well as other stats :mad: :penguin:

(sh4d3Z) #49

[QUOTE=fearlessfox;331574]I agree with the OP that staying alive is very important. And efficient teams will be clearing areas and taking objectives with as little deaths as possible, and efficient players who know how to build efficient teams will have strong hidden K/D ratios.

Anyone saying K/D means absolutely nothing is wrong, if we could see them (and I’m not saying we should be able to see them) we could tell a lot about a player when correlating with all the other stats.

An operative who hacks the objectives constantly /and/ maintains a positive K/D is better than the operative who hacks the objectives constantly and doesn’t. In fact, as the OP explained, an operative who is killing well will likely be surviving longer and doing more good for the team.

I main Soldier too, and I switch to other classes very rarely if I’m absolutely needed. I always invite all human players to my fireteam even if they have no mic so I can take on the role of team captain if need be, and delegating tasks to others while I sit back and clear rooms has worked very well as a strategy so far. It’s even better on the rare occasion a balanced team is built and more than a couple of people have mics…

Anyway, for the the soldier in the above situation maintaining a positive K/D is /essential/. Not for the K/D itself, but for the fact that if you’re killing more and dying less your team will be progressing much faster.

Killing more and not dying as much is /always/ important in FPS titles, no matter the focus. The point is that in Brink you can be just as helpful to your team if you’re notas suited to killing as you are timing and tactically taking objectives, or supporting others.

(And no, support and objective taking are not lesser roles. Knowing which team member to hand your last pip of stock to and when to run from cover foe the objective are strong tactical skills. Not everyone has the capacity for it.)

Don’t concentrate on securing a high-positive K/D ratio is the point, if you’re worried about it then your not going to be focusing on the important things and might start chasing down unneeded kills instead of holding a choke point or protecting a medic en route to a revive chain, etc…

IMO, the best Briink teams have the following:
Pure Killers
Supporters
Objective Takers

If I could build an ideal team, I’d go for:
2 Medics concentrating on healing the team.
1-2 soldiers concentrating /purely/ on killing the enemy.
1 Operative working the fringes and using the bodies to secure intel
1-2 engineers buffing things
2 players who flit between classes constantly to achieve objectives.

It’s no good being the strongest killer on your team, clearing the room, placing a charge, then being gunned down in the final seconds… much better to clear the room and keep it clear while engineers and medics support you and those playing to work the objectives switch to soldier to to lay the charge for you.

Brink is not about OBJ, and it’s not about K/D, it’s about BALANCE. [/QUOTE]

Pretty much sums up my thoughts about it. Good post.

(legend123) #50

IMO, the best Briink teams have the following:
Pure Killers
Supporters
Objective Takers

Amen.

(Kalbuth) #51

Personnaly, no pb having K/D shown, it just won’t be my focus, it’ll be for some other, good for them

Though, 1 point I disagree in OP :
Argument was like : “I gain XP by helping team mates, or killing, and helping isn’t done fine (it keeps screwing up), so I focus on killing, and thus need my K/D”

Mmmmh, shouldn’t you instead ask for a better handling of “helping each other”? And ask SD to change the “F key for everything” into something usable?

(StillBatusBrad) #52

[QUOTE=legend123;331771]IMO, the best Briink teams have the following:
Pure Killers
Supporters
Objective Takers

Amen.[/QUOTE]

Completely agree. You’ll note that only one of the three types would give a flying **** about their K/DR, BTW. K/DR is entirely irrelevant to the majority.

(Jess Alon) #53

Frankie. For a brilliant player like you I understand how K/D is important. But not everyone with a good K/D ratio is a good player. Some players use cowardly tactics to keep a good K/D ratio intact. Also in Brink there are bots. And I know you could only have the K/D count in regards to humans. But what if a bot distracts you or something and a human player camps your while you’re fighting his bot teammate? What if people boost their K/D by just playing on easy against bots? It renders the K/D meaningless.

Some people are obsessed with that K/D. And it makes them hide out and only take easy kills. What I’m saying is there are a lot of bad players out there that want people to think they are good so they only shoot at guys when they think there is no risk of dying and they hide all the time instead of consistently producing kills.

(virtus) #54

but they do. dont you look at the awards the top killer is listed. why do u need more?

as for my 2 cents. i think the idea is nice (in theory). if I’m playing container city on security hell i don’t want to see my kdr 3/100. if I’m on the other side i still don’t want to see it because I’m one of the nice players who don’t guard the spawn and at least let them get past the gate.

another negative of showing the kdr is it encourages people to only kill and not complete obj. its ok to have 1-2 people to hold people off but the other 6-7 need to support and do obj.

now what would be nice would be a meter that show your exp per min. or average exp per map but SD has enough on their hands right now so i wouldn’t care if they did or didn’t.

(iFork) #55

Maybe not a k/d ratio but just a kill score because then you’ll get flaming idiots calling you a n00b for dying so much despite you pushing and achieving the objective.

(Ero-Sennin) #56

Happened so many times on ETQW… i agree with ya

(DarkangelUK) #57

I’ll still go with my previous suggestion where it can be seen, but not globally and not in a negative manor.

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;331327]I think it could be handled in a subtle way that allowed you to see your kills and deaths, but displayed in a way that didn’t draw attention to itself or make it a goal to aim for.

In ETQW you had the Most Kills award, and it displayed that number beside the players name… but hovering over that number would display what your number of kills were, so only you saw it. In that same fashion, if they also added an award for Least Deaths, and again hovering over it showed your number, you’d have a very subtle way of seeing your kills and deaths.

Calling it Least Deaths is putting a positive spin on a negative metric, there’s nothing worse than seeing your name publicly displayed against a negative award like Most Deaths which everyone can see. Keeping that negativity private means you can still learn from it, but not be ridiculed for it.[/QUOTE]

(Kurnuttaja) #58

K/DR was the reason that killed MNC and turned it into a deathmatch with no-one caring a crap about winning a match but instead just looking at their K/D stats on scoreboard. K/D can be game breaking for any objective/teamwork based shooter as it rewards lonewolfing and using the most overpowered class/weapons to achieve the best K/D.

K/D in Brink would lead into: Everyone playing medic/engineer with Carb-9 and only buffing themselves. Every round ending up in defenders winning, without the first objective completed.
Kills are what everyone only care about if shown on the scoreboard or tracked as ratio.

(iFork) #59

^Now that you mention it,l I think there should be a kill score, along with an addition of a much more subtle least death award that gives you absolutely no benefits besides fill up your ego.

(zenstar) #60

[QUOTE=Kurnuttaja;332185]K/DR was the reason that killed MNC and turned it into a deathmatch with no-one caring a crap about winning a match but instead just looking at their K/D stats on scoreboard. K/D can be game breaking for any objective/teamwork based shooter as it rewards lonewolfing and using the most overpowered class/weapons to achieve the best K/D.

K/D in Brink would lead into: Everyone playing medic/engineer with Carb-9 and only buffing themselves. Every round ending up in defenders winning, without the first objective completed.
Kills are what everyone only care about if shown on the scoreboard or tracked as ratio.[/QUOTE]

MNC is such a good game. I really wish the community hadn’t fallen apart because of the stat padding and pub stomping / team stacking. They shot themselves in the foot with that stupid star rating thing too.