Just some thoughts on Javelin

(Xenithos) #21

A to the freaking MEN: @Sorotia

If I’m consistently getting double and triple kills with each of my rockets, or using it on objectives, I am far from a noob, and that doesn’t mean Jav is the issue, it means you grouped up and asked to get rocketed. Sure, she makes things a little easier with the way her rocket works mechanically. So tired of people complaining, yeah, she’s cheesy, but the people that complain almost always keep complaining regardless of whatever happens to the merc. We could make it so you can only fire 1 sniper bullet per second, and it can only instant kill aura on a headshot, and people will still complain.

(Xenithos) #22


(HadronZodiac) #23

I know I already said this to someone, but in the end I think the best way is a flak-to-sniper rocket mechanic. The higher the range the higher the damage but lower the blast. This means if you are 1v1 you have a larger chance of hitting the enemy (and possibly enemy backup/groups) but lower damage potential, still giving them a chance. Or you can long range do mega damage to an EV or small area to like snipe a rhino.

Max damage could be like 300 (to humans) and EV damage could be 500, and with enough range you can one shot a secondary objective. And at minimum range it could be like 1.5x the blast but a max of about 90 damage. This would also deter just jumping in and launching a rocket as you are increasing your odds of blowing yourself up. So I think this could be a great change.

(javelin_main) #24

k then. Other than a few. Mostly these changes have seemed to have gone down well on the whole. I hope that these changes would help Javelin be more of a long range ordinance with a nicer focus on support instead of being the 1v1 god. I will be emailing these to splash damage and to shoe on a discord direct message. I will also be attaching this specific thread to shoe and splash damage too. This way they can see what the general player base thinks of them. I am happy with what I have written down for the first set of changes with only a few minor tweaks and I will post exactly what will be sent to splash damage and shoe bellow.

Javelin. Right so I think that her intended use is not really viable. However, the use of ambushing and 1v1 cheesing is still too good. Splash damage has only worsened the problem. At least she was good at doing other things than 1v1 cheesing at release. Here is how I think you should at least start to fix this.
part 1) Stopping 1v1 cheesing

change 1) Increase the time taken to pull out the rocket launcher by 0.15s-0.25s (I would suggest starting small and slowly increasing this change slowly but SD at the end of the day choose.

change 2) If Javelin has had her rocket launcher out for less than 0.35s (easier to type and implement than 0.33 reoccurring XD), the rocket launcher should take an extra 0.5s to charge. To communicate this, I would suggest that the rocket launcher’s displays (where blue) should show as red for these 0.35s and stay red for the charge if it is being extended. After the 0.35s or after then end of the extended charge, the red displays should revert back to the blue displays.

change 3) for the first 8m of flight, the rocket should not explode but should simply drop to the ground as a dud. This dud should simply fall to the ground and tick like a grenade. The dud will explode after a (I can’t make up my mind on this I’m thinking between a 2 second fuse and a 3 second fuse) and will explode with a 3m aoe and dealing a maximum of 150 damage with the rocket’s damage dropping from 150 to 0 damage after 0.3m

Change 1 is to make it harder to pull the rocket out when under gun fire and change two is to generate a similar effect. Change 1 and 2 are designed to stop 1v1 cheesing and to give players, who are targeted up close, time to react. They also force a Javelin player to predict the exact moment that she needs to fire a rocket. It also means that Javelin players can’t pull out rockets mid fire fight. Change 3 and is to lesser the strength of the up close rocket by well removing it

part 2) (Increasing Javelin’s support role)

change 1) Remove the one second delay between A friendly stepping into the ammo generator’s area of effect and receiving the first tick of ammo. This should also allow Javelin to top up teammates without having to stand still.

change 2) The first tick of ammo from the ammo generator (at 0s after entering the ammo generator’s area of effect) should give 1/3 of a magazine (preferring to round down). The second tick of ammo from the ammo generator (at 1s after entering the ammo generator’s area of effect) should give 2/3 of a magazine (preferring to round up). The third tick of ammo from the ammo generator (at 2s after entering the ammo generator’s area of effect) should give 1 full magazine. The fourth tick from the ammo generator (at 3s after entering the ammo generator’s area of effect) should full refill the rest of the player’s ammo.

change 3) Increased ammo generator area of effect by 0.5m

change 4) the ammo reach augment should increase the radius by 25%

changes 1,3 and 4 are to allow her to top up a little bit better
as people don’t really stick too close to a Javelin for too long. Change 2 is to allow Javelin to not have to stay still and support better. It also gives 1 mag over 1 second instead of 1 half of a magazine over a second.

part 3) (Increasing Javelin’s potential against objectives)

Change 1) added multiplier to objectives of 2X.

reasoning: it simply allows Javelin to 2 shot the ev and deal more damage to secondary objectives.
part 4) (Increasing Javelin’s potential to use her rocket at a reasonable distance)
change 1) after the 8m weakening distance, the rocket launcher should be more effective.

1.1) added inner effect

inner effect:
splash spread radius: 2m
damage in splash spread: 320
(all damage is flat. This means that if you are within 2m, you will take full damage no matter what (other than augments) and will not drop damage until 2m)
from 2m to 2.75m, The rocket’s damage will drop from 320 to 235

1.2) added outer effect:

outer effect:
splash spread radius: 4m
damage in splash spread: 235
(again all damage is flat)
from 4m to 4.5m, The rocket’s damage will drop from 235 to 0
Change 2) Damage from the rocket should not be blocked by players, equipment, small objects on the ground or any object with collision. The player will take damage as well as players behind them taking damage (if within the area of effect).

change 1 is to make her a little bit more effective at range. whereas change 2 is in the game and isn’t a useful balance feature it’s just annoying. I have had times where one person changing position has blocked damage to multiple players that would AND SHOULD have died without this.

(HadronZodiac) #25

The problem with extending charge time when rocket launcher is out for .333 is some people press q to start charging. You are basically punished for using a game mechanic that is supposed to be used. Also, that change where first 8m wont explode, just no, God noo…

All the support things i agree with tho

Objective stuff - I think it should auto destroy secondary objectives (aka make her a secondary objective fire support) and do 450 damage to ev. This would make it so its easier to take out assuming u used both rockets on ev. You have to keep in mind the cooldown-ev damage ratio needs to stay similar to other mercs.

(Demonic_Muff1n) #26

i say make the radius of the ammo generator larger that way she can fulfill her role as fire support or increase the rate at which nearby teammates receive ammo. as for the ammo refill i say make it so that the player can activate it whenever they want to, and when they do activate it, it refills their ammo.

(NexDroid) #27

IMHO she is at fine spot now. Sure rocket deals a lot of damage and is kind of annoying, yet most of times players use guided mode which shows the path rocket is gonna take. It is very easily to hide or jump away so rocket will miss you or only hurt you yet not kill you. When Javelin was released I wrote some topics to remove her guided mode so she will be more skill based. Right now you don’t even need to predict enemy movements, you can launch the rocket and then move your crosshair locked on enemy. I’d prefer more soldier’s approach from TF2, where you have to predict enemy’s movement and actually think where to aim your rocket, so enemy will be killed in blast. She should be something like Nader, direct hits should reward more than just noobish spamming or brainless blasting everywhere and everything.

(RectalTerror) #28

I love Jav how she is. Only thing I want is the bugs fixed, that is, rockets sometimes don’t do any damage, because they’re absorbed by a little map element, or by a merc, or whatever.
You sometimes shoot in the middle of a crowd and only the merc you hit directly dies, the other aren’t hit at all. And sometimes the rocket just doesn’t do any damage while you hit the guy straight in the face. It’s possible that on your screen the rocket hits the guy, while on his screen he shot the rocket as you fired it, so I guess the netcode favors the receiver, I don’t know.
Your rocket being shot as you fire it is a bit bs anyway, it sucks and it’s too random.