Yep and I still think the movement is to slow if we don’t have strafe jump under a FOV 110 look like a turtle game, you can’t escape as you can do in ETQW or ET, it’s not really effective in dueling to, and ROF still to high.
Really need something who give to the movement system a bit of punch.
[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;460166]Yep and I still think the movement is to slow if we don’t have strafe jump under a FOV 110 look like a turtle game, you can’t escape as you can do in ETQW or ET, it’s not really effective in dueling to, and ROF still to high.
Really need something who give to the movement system a bit of punch.[/QUOTE]
Yep agree with this even with strafe jumping atm the TTK is too quick to be able to really use it.
I’ve said it before and Ill say it again… Dirty Bomb won’t make it past the money tournaments if the movement system isn’t addressed in a serious way. With movement so boring and sluggish, you simply won’t see “Dirty Bomb League - Season 2” having more than 4 scrub teams. I hate to say it, but it’s just an objective based CS clone if the crap movement stays even close to the way it is now.
sort of:
jump system (long, short jump, nade, rocket jump?)
dodge system double press wasd keys (unreal tournament) and boosting each other is good enough to begin with.
as we all know some sort of trick jumps are on the to do list. so just wait and be surprised brothers of darkness 
Edit: yeh unreal tournament also had wall jumps 
Well CS did have this also… but it wasn’t intentional and it did kinda break the game if you were as good as this guy.
Wow, impressive video since that is really hard to do. As you said in CS it was game breaking. Also is a very good example of why I think infinite forward momentum or infinite chaining jumps is a bad idea for a game with a semi realistic setting.
After some games of BF3, I started to play with some mates who just started to play DB and the first reaction is “this game is really slow, even BF is better than this !” So for a fast paced shooter that’s not so good … with a FOV under 110 that’s just unplayable … feel so slow …
Need some punch !! still slow and linear way to move. I want some more !!
[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;460239]After some games of BF3, I started to play with some mates who just started to play DB and the first reaction is “this game is really slow, even BF is better than this !” So for a fast paced shooter that’s not so good … with a FOV under 110 that’s just unplayable … feel so slow …
Need some punch !! still slow and linear way to move. I want some more !![/QUOTE]
That’s definitely not good to hear regarding them thinking BF3 is faster. The fun aspect of BF3 (besides the movement being fluid and sprinting working very well) is being able to jump/climb over everything. The map layout, structure, and scope are worlds apart from DB, but I think it is interesting just how well it all works together and makes BF3 way more fun.
and my mates are old ETQW players waiting for something better than BF just in case
If DB is a fast paced shooter then BF3 is a Quake like !
well DB has kinda the same pace as BF3 or CoD; only moving from left to right is really fast^^. If DB would be really fast paced, the space on maps is too small/narrow, not much room to move; Db still could take more lanes to move, atm its always just one or two
So yes here is the biggest DB problem : Maps !
Maps are tiny so movement system is limited … major issue to me
I need more space and more speed !
If DB would be really fast paced, the space on maps is too small/narrow, not much room to move
I’m not agree.
There are various fast FPS with maps of the same size, or even smaller, than DB : Xonotics, Tremulous, etc. (Even in Warsow, maps are not really large).
If db should be become faster, this is the distance between spawns and objectives which need to be extended.
What I hope for movements is that they will not add contextual actions/animations like in Brink or BF3.
I’m sorry, but what is wrong with contextual animations if they do not lock you out (i.e. they don’t prevent you from shooting or reloading or whatever)? From a 3rd person point of view, wouldn’t it be nicer to have proper animations for vaulting over obstacles for instance rather then the characters pulling impossible box jumps all the time?
Also, ladders were mentioned as part of the next update’s news, are you expecting to go up and down those while still holding you gun with both hands as was done over 10 years ago because it was too complicated to do these animations correctly back then?
[QUOTE=Djiesse;460323]I’m sorry, but what is wrong with contextual animations if they do not lock you out (i.e. they don’t prevent you from shooting or reloading or whatever)? From a 3rd person point of view, wouldn’t it be nicer to have proper animations for vaulting over obstacles for instance rather then the characters pulling impossible box jumps all the time?
Also, ladders were mentioned as part of the next update’s news, are you expecting to go up and down those while still holding you gun with both hands as was done over 10 years ago because it was too complicated to do these animations correctly back then?[/QUOTE]
From my experience there is always a downside to making these nice looking animations. Whether it be locking you out or making the person performing them really easy to hit or really difficult.
The question is: can it be done without any such downside? I can’t see why not and I can’t imagine anyone not liking a system where the movement both feels and looks right
SD wanted to reinvent FPS movement with Brink, why not challenge them to do a bit of that in DB?
I like bunny hopping. It makes the game a little more fun in my opinion but that’s just me. I also like ramp jumps and all the speed that rtcw and etqw had.
I don’t think movement should be same as in Quake 3 or those games based on it, neither Quake Wars. I think there is a reason why Defrag is named Defrag. If you are performing a “difficult” trickjump in Quake 3, your mouse movement is kinda limited to that trickjump; you cannot aim at the same time at someone. Sure one can argue - thats just the pitfall; you need to be able to time those things correctly. Still, those 2 things bite each other in the ass.
Also there are players which excel at trickjumping, I mean there skill is so much higher then mine, I will never reach it - unless someone knowing what he does - would be training me. This also translates to Enemy-Territory and QuakeWars, there are tj’s only a few can do, and some of them are really OP, and had never been considered by the mapper. In ET its quite awkward, the very very good players, do use tj’s to get into position, but from that moment on there movement is different, as moving your crosshair increases spread.
One thing which separates CoD and many of those titles to the games I guess many here love, are the lost control over your weapon on a ladder, when running and in other situations. I consider the lost control while trickjumping more or less the same. As said it bites itself.
I have no solution, I don’t see for example more movement keys to be a solution - for the lolz, imagine wasd + an extra key in each direction, or playing on the numpad… The only thing I see is what BRINK started with the SMART movement, though it was bad implemented in my opinion. As far as I know its based on triggers what you can do, as such its a pain in the ass for mappers. It should be based on code, take as example water. If you let it on a surface, its movement is predetermined, you can code it. There is no need for triggers, it only needs correct physics set up.
Now I envision something, which would let me interact with all physics in the map, based on my current speed and the movement keys I press. Not mixed with my aim. I think the easiest to envision would be a ninja merc type, which can parkour.
I had really wanted the game to have prone, till I read an argument which convinced me, it promotes camping - so no prone please.
ET had 4 modifiers one could say, crouch, jump, walk and prone (not gonna count lean - as you can’t move while leaning). Never though about this but 4 modifiers is a lot. Maybe DB could also use something like that for the movement. One key for sliding, one for leaping (basically forward jump, with help of a hand - if an obstacle is in the way), hmm out of ideas there.
I think making those animations is no problem, but making them takes time. As such I doubt SD wants to waste as much time for something which might be crap. So they need to know beforehand if its worth to invest the time to create those animations.
To end this ramble, bunny hopping is always fun, imagine you had space to jump, and ctrl to leap. Oh I can already see em jump, leap, jump, leap…
You can aim while trickjumping, but then it’s harder to steer since you have to think of two things at the same time and you can’t accelerate. People can also shoot you while you’re trickjumping which knocks you back and ruins your jump (so you are in no way some kind of immortal god all of a sudden just cause you can do some fancy jumps)
Also people keep mixing Q3, ET and now even defrag. These are all different.
Q3 allows flat ground jumping which ET does not, but in ET the movespeed is faster (or models bigger or maybe both? All I know is Q3 maps in ET are way easier)
Defrag also allows aircontrol so you can turn corners without loosing any speed!
I don’t understand why we have to keep trying to think up a new system to replace a system that is already pretty well balanced imo. Something like just adding slide is so much easier and thus boring. (With strafe jumping you can probably learn it in a week, but it will take weeks to build muscle memory. As a result if you stop for a while and come back you won’t have completely lost your skills, but you will be sloppy again so it gives you something to consistently work on. What is difficult about pressing a single button to slide under something? Worst you can do is get the timing wrong, but that is nothing compared to what you need for strafe jumping. It’s like comparing defrag to super meat boy)
As for map design, you can design maps while taking trickjumps into consideration… People getting into odd places usually isn’t very beneficial for them anyway. Map skipping on the other hand needs to be something the mapper thinks about while designing the map.
Another thing that would be required is during the load screen add little texts at the bottom that tell you tips for example:
This would solve the situations of people yelling and cursing hacks. Another obvious addition is some kind of learning tool / tutorial to introduce people to the concept (which already exist btw)
Another thing about mapping in unreal vs old engine is that in unreal I’ve noticed you have to say if a ledge is clipped or not for every ledge (well that’s what I deduce from the fact that so many things aren’t clipped in DB) - So then there would be no “accidental” spots
The only reason / fear not to implement it is that it wouldn’t be exactly the same as in previous titles which will probably spark some hate. I don’t know exactly how it works so I don’t know if it’s possible to implement it exactly as it was, or if that would even make sense (the same values in a different engine)
Uh, maybe the easy-medium jumps are easy to forsee, but uhm… nei, just to much possible.
The following only shows a part of whats possible, there are tons of more jumps, some are insanely difficult and require either luck or very precise movement.
There is no room to aim at someone while doing those.
I ain’t mixing those games, they all share the same acceleration bug, though I have no clue about QW.
ET also has some sort of air control - lol, just not full control. Anyway.