Is there no solution to close websites who spread hacks?

(thewonderfulcar) #21

But both are perfectly valid reasons for being kicked… and if it’s not possible to kick them? Well, if they want to ruin my game, I’ll ruin theirs.

(Sauron|EFG) #22

[/quote]
That’s what matters here. It’s quite common that cheaters keep changing their name to avoid kickvotes, and although that doesn’t mean it’s a cheater it doesn’t mean the opposite either. :slight_smile:

thewonderfulcar: Team killing someone like you do is also a valid reason for being kicked. :wink:

(Hakuryu) #23

I agree with the poster above that states these people might not be cheating, but probably are just damn good.

In all my time in ET (2 years) I’ve only seen one person I knew was cheating. He never seemed to hit me anywhere but in the head… every time I saw him, 2-3 shots and I’m dead- EVERY time. So I observe him, and all of a sudden he is playing like a noob- running into fire, cant hit the side of a barn, and dieing alot. I switch back to my team and all of a sudden he is the headshot master again. So I observe again and he plays like a noob again- Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide. He had to have had something that told him when he was being observed, not to mention the headshots.

Anyway, since I’ve set the filter to only show punkbuster servers, I havent run into anything like that again.

(Isabel Lucas) #24

Hacking a server is illegal (even ones containing game cheats) and you can be sent to prision for it in most countires. Cheating in a game via “hacks” is not.

I wish it were though because hackers spoil it for all.

Maybe its time the EULA contained a damages provision for using hacks in game so SD could pursue those caught hacking by PB for civil recovery of a sum representative of the disruption and loss of enjoyment caused to others. Maybe the EULA should include a fixed penalty. If hackers had to pay out say $500 on being caught, then I’m sure that would be a great deterrant to many. It wouldn’t get rid of the cheat sites but it would reduce the number of customers and people using hacks if they saw others getting pursued for and having to pay out damages as a result.

(SCDS_reyalP) #25

Actually, a lot of the hack authors are breaking the law. Most game EULAs prohibit reverse engineering and commercial exploitation of derivative works.

Bacon: some of the existing cheats have a ‘feature’ that continually changes your name to be that of other people on the server. It’s fairly obvious when someone is doing it.

(Isabel Lucas) #26

Yes, but thats not against the law, just a breach of contract ie the EULA. The only thing the game company can do for a breach of the EULA is sue you or ban you from their games.

If something is against the law, then it has criminal penalties.

Yes, I know this is picking hairs, but in the context of this discussion its important to make a distinction between a criminal offence and a breach of a contractural agreement.

(Sauron|EFG) #27

Paranoia + scoreboard

It’s not possible to write a cheat that shows who’s spectating you.

(SCDS_reyalP) #28

Copyright violation is a criminal offense (in the US at least). Distributing a derived work of someone elses copyrighted work without permission is not just a breach of the EULA. It is a crime.

In this situation, the EULA just spells out what you have permission to do, which clearly does not include selling derived works for a profit.

edit:
Of course, to actually get a prosecutor interested in such a crime, there would have to be significant loss or damage of some kind.

(Sauron|EFG) #29

But does the cheats really qualify as “derived work”? I have very little idea how they work with the exception of an OpenGL wrapper, but that’s hardly a copyright violation.

Btw, doesn’t section 3f in the license mean that commercial server hosts are violating the EULA? And section 3h means that those pk3 files with French/Spanish menus that peolpe keep asking about are illegal. :slight_smile:

(Schizma) #30

I’d love to see this cheaters in action (I never meet any cheaters).

Play Counter-Strike for 10 minutes.

silver surfer reviews

(SCDS_reyalP) #31

There’s a good chance that at least some clienthooks are.

Btw, doesn’t section 3f in the license mean that commercial server hosts are violating the EULA? And section 3h means that those pk3 files with French/Spanish menus that peolpe keep asking about are illegal. :slight_smile:

Quite possibly :moo:

(vcs2600) #32

I know with Linux software they have a lot of rules about who can call what APIs, but those rules have never been enforced for commercial software, especially when there’s no financial component.

Not that it matters because it would prohibitive to actually track down these people and sue them.

There’s actually a real simple solution to online cheating – authenticate game IDs with a credit card or something tied to an actual person. I’ve heard they use this on XBox.

(Dazzamac) #33

Unfortunatly not all kids carry credit cards or driving liceneces so you’d be alienating about 50% of the gaming market. Not a good idea by any stretch of the imagination.

(SniperSteve) #34

Lol. I find it halarious when somone asks: Is it actually legal to mack a hack?

A hack is just changing the script around so it will do something other then its original pourpose. Think of it as a mod, only you have the mod, and they don’t. Of course this ‘mod’ is only on your PC and not your fellow gamers. You create it in such a way so the PunkBuster won’t detect it, and you can esentially be running 2 different versions of the game without anyone noticing untill you start running extra fast or whatnot.

There are also ways you can speedhack by making your CPU do work faster then its intended to. (Basically change some clocking settings. Lets say you shot 100 rounds per min normal, once you speed it up 10% your shooting 110 RPM. Its such a small ammount no one will notice, and it will give you that extra edge.

Now there are some illegal hacks, most which involve pirating software or viewing other peoples data. But as far as game hacks go, it is controled on the game-server level. Some servers its allowed (only a few) but most its not allowed. If you run a hack while on the server, you will be banned from that server. With games like BF2 and now ET:QW there is the online stats system which makes it a juicy target for hacking. However the servers that can modify the data (ie update your stats) are normally required to run the latest version of PunkBuster, or something comparable.

This however gives a false sense of security as all you need to do is modify some of the server output things and change the data. From the server level on, I dont think there is any/much security. hacking on this level would fall under the game companys juristiction, and they would be able to refuse data from your server. Still, unless you mess up allot of stuff they won’t call the police on you or anything.

And a hacker is really a well versed computer programmer. The people who go around killing PHP-Nuke sites (like the g00ns) are just pathetic script kiddies, they are classified as hackers by the public, and are what give true hacks a bad name. hacking is not bad, its good, without hacking you would not be playing W:ET. But like all things, it can be, and is used improperly very often…

(SCDS_reyalP) #35

If you read the ET EULA, you will find that what sort of mods you are allowed to create, and what you are allowed to do with them is quite restricted. In particular, you are very clearly not allowed to sell them. Note that most ‘hacks’ don’t involve scripting either.

There are also ways you can speedhack by making your CPU do work faster then its intended to. (Basically change some clocking settings. Lets say you shot 100 rounds per min normal, once you speed it up 10% your shooting 110 RPM. Its such a small ammount no one will notice, and it will give you that extra edge.

FWIW, that description isn’t really correct, and generic speedhacks don’t work in ET.

And a hacker is really a well versed computer programmer.

You are confusing (or deliberately conflating) two different definitions of the same word. The people who create aimbots and wallhacks are not all skilled (although some are), and having such people exist certainly isn’t responsible for the existence of ET.

(Isabel Lucas) #36

Isabel Lucas wrote:
Yes, but thats not against the law, just a breach of contract ie the EULA. The only thing the game company can do for a breach of the EULA is sue you or ban you from their games.

Copyright violation is a criminal offense (in the US at least). Distributing a derived work of someone elses copyrighted work without permission is not just a breach of the EULA. It is a crime.

In this situation, the EULA just spells out what you have permission to do, which clearly does not include selling derived works for a profit.

edit:
Of course, to actually get a prosecutor interested in such a crime, there would have to be significant loss or damage of some kind.

But hacking isn’t a violation of copyright. You’re not copying someones work, and then selling it or distributing it. We’re not talking wares here.

You’re selling additional code to add to it, code that is entirely your own. If that was a copyright violation then you could never mod anything.

(B0rsuk) #37

I don’t think there was a single case of a EULA based lawsuit winning. My impression is that EULA has no power in courts.

WHY would you ban/remove websites spreading hacks ?!!? They’re very useful. You can just give a link to evenbalance/punkbuster team, so they can tinker with the hacks and see how they’re made. This should make it much easier to develop countermeasures and update the PB.
You don’t want the hack to go down to underground, do you ? Hacks hardest to nail down are those which don’t spread, because their authors keep them to themselves/small amount of people. Once a hack gets a bit popular, it’s easy to catch.

(SCDS_reyalP) #38

You failed to read the whole post. Depending on the circumstances, it can be.

You’re selling additional code to add to it, code that is entirely your own. If that was a copyright violation then you could never mod anything.

You are not allowed to sell mods of q3 games, if they contain any of the original code. Doing so is a copyright violation. You are only allowed to give them away, by special permission in the EULA. Not all hacks would be derived works of ET, but I suspect some of the most popular ones are.

They already are. Almost all the undetected ones are only for sale (or at least not public), not available on the websites you send evenbalance.

I don’t think there was a single case of a EULA based lawsuit winning. My impression is that EULA has no power in courts.

Or everyone settled before it got to trial. While it’s not the typical EULA, the GPL has been tested in court and withstood the test very well. Large corporations settled with a not particlarly wealthy non-profit, rather than face what would most likely be a negative judgement.

(senator) #39

Almost unbelivable to think that people would acually pay to get some software to cheat in games, I mean how low can you go? I hope that SD will just permamnently ban the CD-key of caught cheaters, just like Blizzard does in their online games, only way to make those kids think twice, whether they really want to risk their 49.90$ gamekey just to get some cheap wins using hacks :disgust:

(ouroboro) #40

No, but r_picmip 3 sure is. :bump: