Is there copyright for maps or what goes ?

(Fenris) #1

Hi all

I’m just curious as how you as mappers look on the issue of copyright or whatever may be applicable to your maps ? To maybe explain a bit better what I mean is how you look upon those who modify your maps in any way, for example description, cmd-map, “startup-logo” (you know that little thing during map load).

To take a concrete example I downloaded the XLabs map yesterday, then used ASE to find a few servers running the map, then I got quite surprised when the first server I connected to started me downloading the map again, until I noticed the server owner had changed the map startup-logo to include the name of their clan.
On the other hand this was just the most recent example that I’ve come across, there are a few other modified maps I’ve seen a few times as well, such as RTCC2 etc.

Personally I find that quite annoying since it would mean quite a lot of maps with the same name, and a lot of pk3 files in total. (I usually have no download speed problem but others may have an issue with that), not including the fact that generally you’d have no idea if there were other modifications to the map itself as well and simple logos and stuff.

On the other hand there are maps I would just have loved to see modified, such as D-Day (to remove the “beta 1” text from the logo, as there seems to be no major faults in the map and no final version forthcoming(?)), or a few others where the objective descriptions are quite poor and everyone still have to ask what the objs are, and adding a few helping comments would have been nice, but it feels sort of foolish to contact the mapper to point out spelling and typing issues in otherwise great maps.

Still I don’t like the idea of modifications at all, clan-logos can easily be added via the “watermark” functions in Bani, and extra descriptions are also easily added via separate campaignfiles, leaving the maps “pure”.

So what’s your opinions ?

(Loffy) #2

I would be pissed if I went to a server and saw that someone had decompiled it and changed stuff inside the map. Like moving a wall or adding a ladder. Then after my initial reaction, I would think: “Why haven’t they had the common courtesy to write to me?” If you can decompile and alter stuff, then you can also find the ReadMe file and write to the author!
has anyone experienced this or similar things?
I seem to remember that Sock had some stuff about this (intelletual property rights, ReadMe files and maps) on his site. In sum, his advice was to take it calmly (and not write a speedy mail in anger) and contact the people to ask what is going on and to have them set things right. Every situation calls for a unique solution though.
// Loffy

(Fenris) #3

Just remembered the “new” Return to Carnage Canyon II I ran across was called “Return to Carnage Canyon II - adjusted” and the filenames was
rtcc2-adjusted.pk3, in case it might be some sanctioned mod.
The Xlabs did not have anything except the banner altered from what I saw, so the filename was the same (and consequently became something like xlabs1.sdjkfh89347.pk3 in ET’s name conflict avoidance).

(SoulRebel) #4

i used my sponsor logo on the startup logo (xlabs)… if its not legal i will change this immediately…

but if a clan uses my map to advertise i have not agreed anything

?

(SiliconSlick) #5

I never modify the author’s original .pk3… I occasionally
release additional .pk3s that will come alphabetically
later to override scripts/images/textures/descriptions[li],
[/li]but modifying the original .pk3 and then using
the same name is EVIL BAD.

SiliconSlick

[li] for examples, see
[/li]http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&t=5677&start=54

(Fenris) #6

Don’t misunderstand me now, as you’re the author what you put into your map is completely your business, what I was exemplifying was the fact that there already seems to be two versions of xlabs1, the first one I got from your thread here on the forum;
http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&t=6623

the other I don’t honestly remember the server I got it from, since I just scanned for xlabs-servers with ASE and picked a random one with the lowest ping and most players, but anyway it was more an example of the fact that there are several versions of not just this map but others as well. (Could probably have searched more for the old threads on copyright, and also the threads on why you don’t want too many pk3’s, but an example is often equally easy to use)

Oh well, guess I’ll have to find the maps in question to better continue this discussion :slight_smile:

(G0-Gerbil) #7

If someone changed my map to add their own details to my map, I’d go absolutely ape-shit.
I don’t spend hours and hours and months creating a map so some shit can claim credit for it.
The copyright legal niceties that come with most maps are technically legally binding, and indeed I did point out to whoever hosts for RTCWfiles.com that the file offer they do (you can burn files to a CD and have the CD mailled to you) is actually illegal, since virtually every file says 'not for ditribution commercially or otherwise by CD) - paying for the file on a CD kinda breaks this.
However, most people ignore this (if indeed they even know it happens) because getting your map out there is fine, everyone wants their map to be widespread.

However, someone changing my file specifically to stick their name on it, can fuck right off, and I’d make damn sure to alert whichever cheeky bastard did it that I wasn’t happy and would want them to change it back. Even if you don’t ‘mind’ per se, you now have two different versions of your map floating around, which doesn’t help anyone.

If you find out the name of the clan or people who did that thing to xlabs, post here - naming and shaming can be quite an effective way of stopping people doing this cheeky shit.

(SiliconSlick) #8

Indeed… e.g.

(see the “File Comments” at the bottom).

I never submitted that there but once I saw that “Ronald” (“author”
of the map Pool Desu Yu (if you belive that… I don’t)) had
submitted MY .pk3 with HIS readme and screenshots
I know I was damn pissed.

SiliconSlick (very wary of projects that “Ronald” works on)

(G0-Gerbil) #9

Actually I do believe he did that map - it was awful beyond belief :slight_smile:

Ah, for the good old days of ‘sin threads’ :wink:

(SCDS_reyalP) #10

regardless of copyright, server admins modifying other peoples .pk3s to change the content of the map is just stupid. The only case it would be reasonable, IMO, would be if there were serious bugs in the map, and the author was not contactable. In that case, you should rename it.

Furthermore, the quake VFS is designed so you can over-ride existing content.If you REALLY want to change a maps splash screen or command maps (which is still stupid and wrong, IMO) then you should a second small .pk3 which does that for you. If you don’t understand that, you shouldn’t be running a public server… :moo:

(Fenris) #11

While I agree that this could be very effective I think I would personally rather choose the somewhat softer approach of notifying the author (in case that was possible to find out) and let him (her) decide whether it was in their interest to just contact the admin in question directly or via public forums.
I don’t know I may be too nice, but the naming & shaming thing seems quite brutal, dunno what everyone else thinks on that but I think it could easily become hasty posts resulting in unnecessary flamewars and bad feelings.

(G0-Gerbil) #12

Heh, yeah go read Sock’s article about naming and shaming, he’s a nice guy too :slight_smile:
Thing is, people do these things knowing full-well it’s ‘wrong’. Of course, they may only do it thinking (A) it won’t harm anyone and (B) the map maker won’t notice. In both cases they are wrong.

Heh, try being nice first then :slight_smile: Spose it always leaves you being nasty as another option later!

But this is a personal peeve of mine - I do (or rather did) a lot of open source stuff in the past, and it was bloody annoying to have someone not only steal my free work, but claim ownership and try to sell it. I guess my mentality from that has trickled over into mapping :slight_smile: