I think people are driving this off-topic a little TOO hard. Let’s keep the context of - they are cheaters, in a video game.
I completely understand the annoyance of it, I despise cheaters too and they should be banned, but let’s make sure we retain the context XD They aren’t serious criminals - they’re kiddies with ego’s to prove that are far too big for their boots. 
Sorry Faraleth, last one.
You’re actually comparing the movement towards the foundation of modern society, to informing the community about the status of people that are protected by a username, firewall, and the fact that they haven’t actually committed a crime bad enough to be punished by the law?
[/quote]
Privacy is the keyword. If my account gets banned, it is something between me and Nexon for doing it. The “lynch mob” and revenge feelings have a low priority or none.
This is different from country to country but many agree to value it only higher in cases of “high public interest and/or impact on society”.[/quote]
Nexon and SD shouldn’t give two hoots about “revenge feelings”, in fact, I doubt there would be any. If SD and Nexon explicitly state that the hacker’s username will be shamed if they are caught hacking, they know what’s coming and they are obligated to acknowledge the fact that if you get caught, you will be banned and listed so that others can have the security and peace of mind that you won’t be using that account to abuse the system and make people’s experiences bad.
I’ve watched this whole discussion from afar and although I do feel like having a ban list would make many people feel good, if ban lists becomes a thing, I can’t stop thinking at the following scenario happening.
Let’s call our characters Oliver and Bob just to be able to differentiate them easier, shall we?
Oliver is a good player, he knows the game from top to bottom and has been playing a long time. His level is high, he’s skill is quite decent and he kicks any newcomers ass.
Bob is a newcomer. He joins a game and get cruuushed by Oliver. Bob feels bad about it but moves on. Unfortunately the more Bob plays, the more he encounters Oliver, a regular player. Bob gets increasingly frustrated and doesn’t seem to be able to catch up on Oliver’s knowledge nor skill.
Bob decides to create a new steam account and call himself Oliver. He downloads Dirty Bomb as well a neat little cheat for it. He joins a game and starts aim-botting and wallhacking his heart out. Shortly after Bob gets banned under the Oliver alias as well as all his other accounts playing on the same ip. Bob is sad he can’t play with his original account.
Other curious people, check the ban list regularly and notice the addition of Oliver.
Shortly after, the real Oliver get’s harassed, kicked and enters a state of impossibility of playing the game under his own name, because people just see him as a hacker.
Nowadays Oliver calls himself Bob and plays in peace, yet he misses his old name terribly. The real Bob goes to church to repent, as everyone knows cheaters end up in hell.
I know it’s a sad story for Bob, with him ending up in hell and all, while Oliver was the bad guy of the story, but we can all be happy that Oliver got what was coming to him and got stuck on the ban list for playing well and only minding his own business. (sarcasm intended)
[quote=“Lumi;98984”]I’ve watched this whole discussion from afar and although I do feel like having a ban list would make many people feel good, yet if ban lists become a thing, I can’t stop thinking at the following scenario happening.
Let’s call our characters Oliver and Bob just to be able to differentiate them easier, shall we?
Oliver is a good player, he knows the game from top to bottom and has been playing a long time. His level is high, he’s skill is quite decent and he kicks any newcomers ass.
Bob is a newcomer. He joins a game and get cruuushed by Oliver. Bob feels bad about it but moves on. Unfortunately the more Bob plays, the more he encounters Oliver, a regular player. Bob gets increasingly frustrated and doesn’t seem to be able to catch up on Oliver’s knowledge nor skill.
Bob decides to create a new steam account and call himself Oliver. He downloads Dirty Bomb as well a neat little cheat for it. He joins a game and starts aim-botting and wallhacking his heart out. Shortly after Bob gets banned under the Oliver alias as well as all his other accounts playing on the same ip. Bob is sad he can’t play with his original account.
Other curious people, check the ban list regularly and notice the addition of Oliver.
Shortly after, the real Oliver get’s harassed, kicked and enters a state of impossibility of playing the game under his own name, because people just see him as a hacker.
Nowadays Oliver calls himself Bob and plays in peace, yet he misses his old name terribly. The real Bob goes to church to repent, as everyone knows cheaters end up in hell.
I know it’s a sad story for Bob, with him ending up in hell and all, while Oliver was the bad guy of the story, but we can all be happy that Oliver got what was coming to him and got stuck on the ban list for playing well and only minding his own business. (sarcasm intended)[/quote]
That seems kind of unlikely to me… Who is going to go out of their way to impersonate someone and download hacks just because they are frustrated by that player? More than likely someone like that would hackusate and report them rather than impersonate.
Beyond all of this you go directly to their steam profile when you select that option in game and their profiles would not be the same. I’m undecided in all of this but I just find your scenario to be unlikely to happen.
[quote=“Lumi;98984”]I’ve watched this whole discussion from afar and although I do feel like having a ban list would make many people feel good, yet if ban lists become a thing, I can’t stop thinking at the following scenario happening.
Let’s call our characters Oliver and Bob just to be able to differentiate them easier, shall we?
Oliver is a good player, he knows the game from top to bottom and has been playing a long time. His level is high, he’s skill is quite decent and he kicks any newcomers ass.
Bob is a newcomer. He joins a game and get cruuushed by Oliver. Bob feels bad about it but moves on. Unfortunately the more Bob plays, the more he encounters Oliver, a regular player. Bob gets increasingly frustrated and doesn’t seem to be able to catch up on Oliver’s knowledge nor skill.
Bob decides to create a new steam account and call himself Oliver. He downloads Dirty Bomb as well a neat little cheat for it. He joins a game and starts aim-botting and wallhacking his heart out. Shortly after Bob gets banned under the Oliver alias as well as all his other accounts playing on the same ip. Bob is sad he can’t play with his original account.
Other curious people, check the ban list regularly and notice the addition of Oliver.
Shortly after, the real Oliver get’s harassed, kicked and enters a state of impossibility of playing the game under his own name, because people just see him as a hacker.
Nowadays Oliver calls himself Bob and plays in peace, yet he misses his old name terribly. The real Bob goes to church to repent, as everyone knows cheaters end up in hell.
I know it’s a sad story for Bob, with him ending up in hell and all, while Oliver was the bad guy of the story, but we can all be happy that Oliver got what was coming to him and got stuck on the ban list for playing well and only minding his own business. (sarcasm intended)[/quote]
Bob is one salty noob :lol:
[quote=“cornJester;98986”]
That seems kind of unlikely to me… Who is going to go out of their way to impersonate someone and download hacks just because they are frustrated by that player? More than likely someone like that would hackusate and report them rather than impersonate.
Beyond all of this you go directly to their steam profile when you select that option in game and their profiles would not be the same. I’m undecided in all of this but I just find your scenario to be unlikely to happen.[/quote]
I just wanted to put it a bit more colourfully than blatantly saying this:
people can cheat under more notorious people’s pseudonyms. Accounts might be different, ban lists might be leading to a steam page. Yet if someone starts using your name and keeps cheating around different servers, people will associate that name with a cheat. And then when you show up, they’ll expect a cheater. Putting a name out there isn’t the same as putting someone’s identity. And hence, it can be faked and abused.
Your persona has no privacy on the internet, what part of that do you not get. If you are a confirmed cheater, it is not defamation and can be publically confirmed ad nauseam.
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Only because you can, doesnt mean you should.
Mind we are talking Nexon responsibly acting in the tradition of a right system and its underlying principles. Not the legal system itself.
In fact you can do the same with their real name if they are confirmed of ANY crimes online or otherwise. So long as you only list the crime and their name/alias. Did you know all court cases are public record?
But for the sake of theory crafting, lets do more:
They havent done any crime. There is not a single court case of a cheater worldwide to my knowledge. Id only know of companies suing commercial cheat programmers - actually Nexon.
I know court cases can be viewed. It takes considerable effort to get to them and copy its content. It will rarely be done aside from law personal and journalists. I would not want to put this on the same level with an internet pillory list that can be spread around the globe in the matter of a few clicks.
Your persona has no privacy on the internet, what part of that do you not get. If you are a confirmed cheater, it is not defamation and can be publically confirmed ad nauseam.
[/quote]
Only because you can, doesnt mean you should.
Mind we are talking Nexon responsibly acting in the tradition of a right system and its underlying principles. Not the legal system itself.[/quote]
Yeah, no. The simple fact that your internet persona is not protected already grants Nexon the right to release the aforementioned lists and thus does not subtract from how responsible they are. The perps already knows what they’re getting into, so when they are caught, they shouldn’t be expected to be handled with silk gloves.
If anything, releasing the lists makes Nexon and SD more responsible just for informing their customers.
[quote=“Lumi;98984”]I’ve watched this whole discussion from afar and although I do feel like having a ban list would make many people feel good, if ban lists becomes a thing, I can’t stop thinking at the following scenario happening.
Let’s call our characters Oliver and Bob just to be able to differentiate them easier, shall we?
Oliver is a good player, he knows the game from top to bottom and has been playing a long time. His level is high, he’s skill is quite decent and he kicks any newcomers ass.
Bob is a newcomer. He joins a game and get cruuushed by Oliver. Bob feels bad about it but moves on. Unfortunately the more Bob plays, the more he encounters Oliver, a regular player. Bob gets increasingly frustrated and doesn’t seem to be able to catch up on Oliver’s knowledge nor skill.
Bob decides to create a new steam account and call himself Oliver. He downloads Dirty Bomb as well a neat little cheat for it. He joins a game and starts aim-botting and wallhacking his heart out. Shortly after Bob gets banned under the Oliver alias as well as all his other accounts playing on the same ip. Bob is sad he can’t play with his original account.
Other curious people, check the ban list regularly and notice the addition of Oliver.
Shortly after, the real Oliver get’s harassed, kicked and enters a state of impossibility of playing the game under his own name, because people just see him as a hacker.
Nowadays Oliver calls himself Bob and plays in peace, yet he misses his old name terribly. The real Bob goes to church to repent, as everyone knows cheaters end up in hell.
I know it’s a sad story for Bob, with him ending up in hell and all, while Oliver was the bad guy of the story, but we can all be happy that Oliver got what was coming to him and got stuck on the ban list for playing well and only minding his own business. (sarcasm intended)[/quote]
Well the banlist could add steam profile links and not only the names so real Oliver is “steamprofile.com/11111” and the Bob who called himself Oliver is “steamprofile.com/11112”. Problem solver and Oliver is happy.
But unfortunately that’s not how people think. You don’t show up as a steam profile in the game and the steam id on a ban list would be banned anyway. So if you would see another Oliver in the game and his id wouldn’t match, you’d just think he created a new account, as the original id is banned.
Furthermore, there would be people who wouldn’t check the list, yet have experienced Bob cheating as Oliver and would just go on a hackusation spree as soon as they would see another Oliver. It’s just how people are.
[quote=“Lumi;99123”][quote=“laudatoryLunch;99086”]
Well the banlist could add steam profile links and not only the names so real Oliver is “steamprofile.com/11111” and the Bob who called himself Oliver is “steamprofile.com/11112”. Problem solver and Oliver is happy.
[/quote]
But unfortunately that’s not how people think. You don’t show up as a steam profile in the game and the steam id on a ban list would be banned anyway. So if you would see another Oliver in the game and his id wouldn’t match, you’d just think he created a new account, as the original id is banned.
Furthermore, there would be people who wouldn’t check the list, yet have experienced Bob cheating as Oliver and would just go on a hackusation spree as soon as they would see another Oliver. It’s just how people are.[/quote]
But if Oliver is on the banlist, how can he be in-game with a high account?
[quote=“laudatoryLunch;99133”][quote=“Lumi;99123”][quote=“laudatoryLunch;99086”]
Well the banlist could add steam profile links and not only the names so real Oliver is “steamprofile.com/11111” and the Bob who called himself Oliver is “steamprofile.com/11112”. Problem solver and Oliver is happy.
[/quote]
But unfortunately that’s not how people think. You don’t show up as a steam profile in the game and the steam id on a ban list would be banned anyway. So if you would see another Oliver in the game and his id wouldn’t match, you’d just think he created a new account, as the original id is banned.
Furthermore, there would be people who wouldn’t check the list, yet have experienced Bob cheating as Oliver and would just go on a hackusation spree as soon as they would see another Oliver. It’s just how people are.[/quote]
But if Oliver is on the banlist, how can he be in-game with a high account?[/quote]
On the list, there should be a user info such as when they joined and when they were banned. Adding a unique player ID number based on IPs or something would help avoid the confusion.
It is still rather unlikely for the situation that Lumi mentioned will ever happen anyways.
[quote=“laudatoryLunch;99133”]
But if Oliver is on the banlist, how can he be in-game with a high account?[/quote]
He can’t, but do you really trust everyone to think this way?
After reading this, Im really not sure. I agree with banlist, but also with statement people are stupid.
They are. A lot - most of them doesnt check if they are right and just attack.
You see it on youtube, where the Ted makes a video, AwsmYT34 copies him and because AwsmYT34 has more subs, people start attackig Ted and dont even check upload dates.
Your persona has no privacy on the internet, what part of that do you not get. If you are a confirmed cheater, it is not defamation and can be publically confirmed ad nauseam.
[/quote]
Only because you can, doesnt mean you should.
Mind we are talking Nexon responsibly acting in the tradition of a right system and its underlying principles. Not the legal system itself.[/quote]
Yeah, no. The simple fact that your internet persona is not protected already grants Nexon the right to release the aforementioned lists and thus does not subtract from how responsible they are. The perps already knows what they’re getting into, so when they are caught, they shouldn’t be expected to be handled with silk gloves.
If anything, releasing the lists makes Nexon and SD more responsible just for informing their customers. [/quote]
I think the discussion is going in circles from here on since Id like to just report what you just quoted from me: Only because you can, doesnt mean you should.
So, let go with your last sentence about more responsible behaviour and the impact it has.
It is nice to know people do get banned and that the AC works to a proper degree. But what does it change for me if I get to know who already got banned?
The player and his accounts are banned. I will not be bothered by them - if I read the name on a list or not.
If he comes back with a different untracible account (f2p, yadda yadda) I still have to report him and Nexon still has to rule over a ban again. Id only know the name might be possibly related with the guy on the list I just read and this leaves a lot of room for error and witchhunting the wrong person.
(After my first kill streaks in every new shooter I tried in the last years I get “asked” if I am some famous BF3 cheater and why I have to insist ruining the current game with my hacks too… I never played BF3 online nor did I ever hack.)
I believe it is way more responsible to cut the negative side effects for innocent players than promoting the games AC with name lists. Rest aside that such lists will be attacked for their figures of having “too few people banned judging from the hundreds of cheaters I met on every server” and similar arguments with more or less valid points.
I agree with @Lumi entirely because I know what he is saying is not a theory. I’ve seen it happen on multiple occasions. Hell, there are websites with people/groups dedicated to harassing and trolling others and ban lists helps them. It also gives some cheater ammunition to keep cheating because you gave them the attention they love. I used to know a guy who was that type of cheater. He was always highly entertained by people discussing him or having his name put on websites. We have a couple people in DB like this.
Ban lists are good for leagues to keep around so that they have prior evidence to use to keep somebody from aliasing under another name/account. And sometimes word of mouth gets around as to who somebody is if they are trying to hide. However, that is much harder to do now in an era where we have no server control and no logs of information that could be used to track these people down. Now a list is mostly pointless and results in very little deterrence, still causes the issues cited above and is mostly just a gesture for people to think that they are doing something about the issue without actually doing anything.
I dont care about a ban list. Its not like ill ever know who “turbofgt91” and “x420smokepaneveryday420x” actually are. Ill never meet them. Itll have zero impact on my life and ill never see them again.
Wahoo! Lets all cheat shame an anonymous screen name!
Tell ya what, I’m gonna go outside and do person things. Get some of that O2 and those photons everyone’s been talking about. Yall have fun with that.
All joking aside, I would like to see some numbers if for no other reason then to satisfy my own morbid curiosity of how many people the system has hammered. You do have to have a pretty tiny ego to cheat over an online video game.