Is Fragger OP?

(amberHarp) #1

There has been alot of talking about this merc, but not a single thread. Here you can vote and and give ideas how to fix him (if you think his op/unbalanced).

(amberHarp) #2

My opinion is that hes way too powerfull. Hes almost as fast as the other mercs (Most common downside to hard hitting high health characters), and has alot of firepower alongside whit a whopping 150hp. Full team of Fraggers is very powerfull tactic, which should never be powerfull in a game based around teamwork

(watsyurdeal) #3

Ok…first of all, I’ve said this before in other threads, but class spam isn’t a fault of the Mercs. There is nothing you can do to fix that except force merc limits. 1 or 2 of each for example.

Second, I think the only thing about Fragger that I think is definitely unfair is how cooked nades are. It offers no chance to the victim, the cooking time needs to be longer, and the audio lines like “frag out” or “eat pineapple” should be said while he is cooking the grenade, not after he throws it.

That or get rid of nade cooking altogether, his bulk and damage output with his primaries are strong traits that would still make him a viable merc.

(mOist) #4

He’s fine now hes ment to be a tank to kill thats the whole point of him, he only seems OP when good players use him or when the whole team are skyhammer/fraggers.

It’s same for all classes good players can make certain classes look great , vasilli is naff when used by people who are average with him but in the hands of a good sniper hes a monster.

My only suggestion would be to lower the distance you are able to throw it, its like a damn rpg at times.

(amberHarp) #5

@Moist While i do agree that some classes need skill to be good, Fragger is a tank. As we all know, all tanks (should be) slow, high hp damage dealers. Well Fragger has very high hp and powerfull weapons, and still has average speed. See where in going whit this? Combine that whit the best ability in the game, and you have an OP character. Reducing his speed would make him a crappy rhino rip off so reducing grenade range and damage seems very fair.

(Szakalot) #6

how would reducing fraggers speed make him into a rhino???

Rhino is only really viable at close range, Fragger is good at any range, and has nades.

(Zenity) #7

I actually feel the opposite, he’s just really easy to rage with. I find him much easier to “master” than other classes, and I very rarely see bad Fraggers. For a merc that’s so easy to learn, I feel that he is definitely still too far above the power curve.

But then he’s also the only merc which can really fill his role right now. Nader is more utility oriented, as are Skyhammer and Arty. On publics he isn’t so bad, partly because most people don’t seem to want to play him anyway so he is not picked all that often. For competitive matches he is still the absolute center piece and IMO it would be more interesting if the fragging potential would be more evenly distributed among the roles. Skyhammer isn’t far off though, but it is likely that teams would rather pick a second Fragger in most situations unless limited by the one merc rule.

As much as people like to complain about the grenades, personally I take more issue with the K-121 being by far the most powerful weapon in the game right now. It doesn’t really have a downside, even the mobility disadvantage barely matters since it’s so fast to switch between gun and knife. I wouldn’t mind seeing this changed, e.g. by increasing the time it takes to raise or lower the LMG.

(amberHarp) #8

how would reducing fraggers speed make him into a rhino???

Rhino is only really viable at close range, Fragger is good at any range, and has nades.
[/quote]
I meant that if you would reduce his speed, he would be slow as rhino and that wouldnt fit as hes not fully tanky like the rhino. The speed is okay for me but right now he doesnt have enough downsides.

(R5on11c) #9

Timed undodgeable Instakills around corners are never balanced under any given circumstances. It’s not fair and there is no other option to counterplay it rather than just killing before he notices you, which isn’t counter play but luck.

(Reddeadcap) #10

I dont really see the issue with Fragger, He’s pretty much an all around character, the only thing that bothers me is that there isn’t the other LMG available for him for some reason rather than two assault rifles.

Grenades wise, I’ve posted on threads on how damage should work in general.
For example 100 damage at the center, 70 after a couple of “inches” and the very rim of the blast being 50 damage. Overkill damage, after passing a threshold say -20 hp for the player hit by a grenade would gib the player and having him say his “grenade out” lines WHEN a grenade has had its pin removed rather than when its tossed, the current lmg in the game is being nerfed every other patch so I’m curious as to how this’ll affect the other one, as for health and tankiness he along with thunder pretty much are meant to withstand more damage, being the center Assault archtypes rather than relying less on health and more on grenades as with nader or more with health and even higher rate of fire as with Rhino.

The same can be said with Vasilli, as many skilled players will score headshots quickly even at closer ranges and drop heart-beat sensors like there is no tomorrow.

One could say Fragger’s downside is speed and large hitboxes, giving him less mobility when it comes to wall jumping and leaving him more open for Sniper rifles.

Edit: Having an OP and Unbalanced vote seems a bit redudant unless you meant Underpowered with the latter.

(amberHarp) #11

[quote=“Redcap;18729”]I dont really see the issue with Fragger, He’s pretty much an all around character, the only thing that bothers me is that there isn’t the other LMG available for him for some reason rather than two assault rifles.

Grenades wise, I’ve posted on threads on how damage should work in general.
For example 100 damage at the center, 70 after a couple of “inches” and the very rim of the blast being 50 damage. Overkill damage, after passing a threshold say -20 hp for the player hit by a grenade would gib the player and having him say his “grenade out” lines WHEN a grenade has had its pin removed rather than when its tossed, the current lmg in the game is being nerfed every other patch so I’m curious as to how this’ll affect the other one, as for health and tankiness he along with thunder pretty much are meant to withstand more damage, being the center Assault archtypes rather than relying less on health and more on grenades as with nader or more with health and even higher rate of fire as with Rhino.

The same can be said with Vasilli, as many skilled players will score headshots quickly even at closer ranges and drop heart-beat sensors like there is no tomorrow.

One could say Fragger’s downside is speed and large hitboxes, giving him less mobility when it comes to wall jumping and leaving him more open for Sniper rifles.

Edit: Having an OP and Unbalanced vote seems a bit redudant unless you meant Underpowered with the latter.[/quote]

Firstly, unbalanced vote is for those people that think something is not too powerfull but some things are unbalanced and should be nerfed. Example: Vasilli is not op but headshot insta gibs are too powerfull. Now lets talk about Fragger. Still even if you decrease Fraggers frags effective range, even a point blank insta gib by a nade seems too powerfull. Fragger still needs a good frag nerf and i hope it will come soon.

(watsyurdeal) #12

[quote=“amberHarp;18848”]

Firstly, unbalanced vote is for those people that think something is not too powerfull but some things are unbalanced and should be nerfed. Example: Vasilli is not op but headshot insta gibs are too powerfull. Now lets talk about Fragger. Still even if you decrease Fraggers frags effective range, even a point blank insta gib by a nade seems too powerfull. Fragger still needs a good frag nerf and i hope it will come soon.[/quote]

Well sorry but that isn’t so much a game balance issue as it is “I hate dealing with x or y merc”.

For example, I hate dealing with Medics and them reviving people before I can finish them off. But if the devs really feel like it has to stay as is then I guess I better get used to Vasilli.

(amberHarp) #13

[quote=“majesticClue;18853”][quote=“amberHarp;18848”]

Firstly, unbalanced vote is for those people that think something is not too powerfull but some things are unbalanced and should be nerfed. Example: Vasilli is not op but headshot insta gibs are too powerfull. Now lets talk about Fragger. Still even if you decrease Fraggers frags effective range, even a point blank insta gib by a nade seems too powerfull. Fragger still needs a good frag nerf and i hope it will come soon.[/quote]

Well sorry but that isn’t so much a game balance issue as it is “I hate dealing with x or y merc”.

For example, I hate dealing with Medics and them reviving people before I can finish them off. But if the devs really feel like it has to stay as is then I guess I better get used to Vasilli.
[/quote]
Its called balance my dear friend. There is no other ability that can insta gib you, and everyone around you. Lets take nader for a example. Nader has pretty low health, and pretty poor primary weapon. Naders ability is good but not even close to fraggers frags. And still fragger has somehow more health and more powerfull weapons than nader.

(watsyurdeal) #14

The problem there isn’t Fragger, it’s that for whatever reason direct nades from Nader, or stickies stuck on enemies from Fletcher, don’t gib. Fragger himself is fine.

(amberHarp) #15

[quote=“majesticClue;18925”][quote=“amberHarp;18924”]
Its called balance my dear friend. There is no other ability that can insta gib you, and everyone around you. Lets take nader for a example. Nader has pretty low health, and pretty poor primary weapon. Naders ability is good but not even close to fraggers frags. And still fragger has somehow more health and more powerfull weapons than nader.

[/quote]

The problem there isn’t Fragger, it’s that for whatever reason direct nades from Nader, or stickies stuck on enemies from Fletcher, don’t gib. Fragger himself is fine.[/quote]
So… We should make everyone more powerfull instead of nerfing one merc?
That makes no sense…

(watsyurdeal) #16

No I’m saying explosives should gib or they are absolutely pointless. Why use Nader when I can play Dkyhammer or Stoker when he’s released, I get ammo and still have a way to deal with people on health stations.

There’s no reason a direct nade or a sticky stuck to someone shouldn’t gib.

(Szakalot) #17

Explosives have the advantage of being frontloaded. You peek- you lob a nade: boom 90 damage! Thats almost a sgood as peaking with a sniper. They also allow to damage people around corners, due to splash damage.

Imo sticky bombs are already very powerful, and I don’t want them to instagib enemies.

Another topic altogether is the inability of most explosives to gib downed enemies, which indeed is a problem.

(amberHarp) #18

@majesticClue
I cant quote you? Wierd. But actually now the devs are doing something to this problem. Now frags leave tracers behind them. And yes, explosives should gib, but they shouldnt do insane ammounts of damage.

(watsyurdeal) #19

[quote=“amberHarp;19299”]@majesticClue
I cant quote you? Wierd. But actually now the devs are doing something to this problem. Now frags leave tracers behind them. And yes, explosives should gib, but they shouldnt do insane ammounts of damage.[/quote]

Define insane, because the thing is there are basically light, medium, and heavy classes in this game.

Light to me is between 80-100, medium is anything between 110-120, and Fragger is imo a Heavy character.

Do I think direct nades from Nader should one shot lights? Fuck yes

Do I think they should one shot medium and heavy classes? No

Fragger is in the same boat, I feel like nades should be enough to kill lights at the very least. But Medium classes should be able to survive. And the damage model for explosives in general is really wonky.

Feels like to me both that and revive mechanics need a bit more work.

(Szakalot) #20

@majesticClue Definitely agree that many abilities should be able to one shot light mercs, which is the case now. And bring back Felix 80hp bodyshot, and remove sway on that other snipa.