Is crafting really that bad?

(hawkeyeguy99) #1

I know I might get some hate for this, but maybe the new crafting system really isn’t all that bad. I think I’ve personally been looking at it the wrong way. Instead of looking at it as a meaningless grind to cobalt, I’ve been given the freedom to simply skip crafting all the irons, and bronzes on my way to cards that I want. Now I can just craft a gold card if I want it. That’s the key here I think. If I want to. I don’t have to get a bronze or silver unless I want them. Yes, that devalues them to me, but I kinda like it a little more that way. There are lots of people who have lots of gold cards in their inventories (i have quite a few) but I don’t feel as screwed when I look at it this way. I still have a bunch of gold cards that I like and use often. I think the only way I’m screwed is if I had been saving up my golds for a cobalt trade up, which I honestly wasn’t going to do for awhile anyways.

The new system is far from flawless, but maybe it’s not so bad. What do you guys think?

(nokiII) #2

I like the new system, but it has a few problems…it could’ve been communicated alot better and more in advance so people can make a conscious decision how to spend their credits / cards. The credit / fragment price could’ve been a bit lower and more in line with the old system. The RNG could’ve been reduces while keeping the new prices.

The new system still has potential, but the damage is done, but on the bright sight, I got to recycle all my cobalts to bronzes.

(frostyvampire) #3

If they remove credit cost this system becomes perfect and doesn’t need any changes (except iron card price increasing to 50 fragments so you can’t get any iron you want for free without losing some if you get the card you don’t want)

But I like it too

(EverythingElse) #4

Well the fun thing WAS actually having to trae up all the way, cause you might want to craft a cobalt and along the way you get a nice gold or silver you want to keep. Prices are way to high as well.

(Ohsnapkline) #5

Most are upset (at least I know I am) because they know developing time could be better spent on content and fixes when there is much better ways to monetize on the cash shop than just loadouts.

but don’t mistake passion for frustration too much, because deep down I think the people who have been playing this game the longest just want the game to succeed and do well and there scared when bigger games like overwatch, and newly competitive tf2 (maybe a long shot) could take new and old players away.

I mean just look at most of the big youtubers who play this game, they are all gravitating to Overwatch.

(Nail) #6

you guys do realize different people work on different aspects of the game independently, RIGHT ??

you know, different teams doing different jobs ???

seems like a lot of armchair highchair quarterbacks around here

(hawkeyeguy99) #7

I just want credit prices to drop somehow. I pretty much have all I need to make a cobalt but am having a VERY hard time justifying spending 50k credits on 1 cobalt when I still have mercs to unlock…

(Ohsnapkline) #8

[quote=“Nail;194468”]you guys do realize different people work on different aspects of the game independently, RIGHT ??

you know, different teams doing different jobs ???

seems like a lot of armchair highchair quarterbacks around here[/quote]

with as limited resources they have being a small team, resource management is key and it seems more than likely they are doing an Agile Software Development Methodology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development) which are common nowadays.

At this point I think they would benefit greatly from changing their development goals with a Waterfall Development Philosophy in mind (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model) where they have a set goal established working on one goal at a time and when it’s finished move onto the next. Gantt charts would help to manage time and deadlines with this process as well.

(Nail) #9

75 people is a smallish team, but not so much everyone has a turn at tea

(slicK.JTheJackal) #10

[quote=“Ohsnapkline;194479”]with as limited resources they have being a small team, resource management is key and it seems more than likely they are doing an Agile Software Development Methodology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development) which are common nowadays.

At this point I think they would benefit greatly from changing their development goals with a Waterfall Development Philosophy in mind (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model) where they have a set goal established working on one goal at a time and when it’s finished move onto the next. Gantt charts would help to manage time and deadlines with this process as well.
[/quote]

The Waterfall model is outdated for software development nowadays bud, and I’ve highlighted the bit why. You don’t move on to the next goal because it’s finished, you move on because the rigid time allocation says so, state of completion be damned.

(Ohsnapkline) #11

[quote=“slicK.JTheJackal;194573”][quote=“Ohsnapkline;194479”]with as limited resources they have being a small team, resource management is key and it seems more than likely they are doing an Agile Software Development Methodology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development) which are common nowadays.

At this point I think they would benefit greatly from changing their development goals with a Waterfall Development Philosophy in mind (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model) where they have a set goal established working on one goal at a time and when it’s finished move onto the next. Gantt charts would help to manage time and deadlines with this process as well.
[/quote]

The Waterfall model is outdated for software development nowadays bud, and I’ve highlighted the bit why. You don’t move on to the next goal because it’s finished, you move on because the rigid time allocation says so, state of completion be damned.[/quote]

lol you make a good point
but I dont think its outdated, those people who design software for life support systems and heart monitors or anything in the medical field. or maybe the software that monitors rockets launched by NASA I don’t think you can afford to make mistakes.

definitely not outdated just different. sure you might land that programming job you always wanted throwing agile development around like it’s a buzzword but the problem with it is haste makes waste.

maybe the problem is just sheer man power, If that’s the case I sure hope support comes splash damage’s way being bought out by the chicken people who own warframe. (were they bought out? or just a portion of shares?)

(Amerika) #12

[quote=“Ohsnapkline;194479”][quote=“Nail;194468”]you guys do realize different people work on different aspects of the game independently, RIGHT ??

you know, different teams doing different jobs ???

seems like a lot of armchair highchair quarterbacks around here[/quote]

with as limited resources they have being a small team, resource management is key and it seems more than likely they are doing an Agile Software Development Methodology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development) which are common nowadays.

At this point I think they would benefit greatly from changing their development goals with a Waterfall Development Philosophy in mind (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model) where they have a set goal established working on one goal at a time and when it’s finished move onto the next. Gantt charts would help to manage time and deadlines with this process as well.
[/quote]

Oh hell no. I work in software R&D for a living and I’ve worked in waterfall setups before. They are horrid, things never get done on time, there is little accountability and there tends to be limited communication. When an agile system is done correctly you can more easily have people focus on short term goals/fixes, there is a lot more cooperation among different teams when changes are made that affect people and you can’t sit and do nothing everyday and then cram work into the last few weeks which was common in waterfall setups.

Agile development, especially when it comes to games, should be a requirement for every company if they hope to hit milestones and keep every part of the team in sync. The only downfall of Agile is sometimes not everyone buys into it because they like the more laid back and less communication heavy waterfall system. So those types don’t get hired where I work and IMO are dinosaurs.

Back on topic though…I don’t have much of an opinion. I haven’t even tried the system. I get why some people would like it and why others would dislike it and it seems like it might need adjustments. With that said…bronze4life.

(slicK.JTheJackal) #13

[quote=“Ohsnapkline;194680”]lol you make a good point
but I dont think its outdated, those people who design software for life support systems and heart monitors or anything in the medical field. or maybe the software that monitors rockets launched by NASA I don’t think you can afford to make mistakes.

definitely not outdated just different. sure you might land that programming job you always wanted throwing agile development around like it’s a buzzword but the problem with it is haste makes waste.

maybe the problem is just sheer man power, If that’s the case I sure hope support comes splash damage’s way being bought out by the chicken people who own warframe. (were they bought out? or just a portion of shares?)
[/quote]

The Waterfall model (before it was given the name) predates computers and was originally intended for engineering/construction stuff (i.e. building bridges or something) if my memory serves me correctly.

The nature of it can’t account for dealing with bugs or acting on feedback without modifying the model to the point of asking the question “why bother using waterfall in the first place?”. It was the go-to model for software development because it was what people knew but times change.

On the flipside, I suppose things like NASA and companies in the medical field have the best and brightest who can be expected to deliver unlike some of these lowly games devs who can’t make text change colour without breaking something else. Maybe it’s a sign of the times, we’re getting so inept we need methodologies to accomodate us. :blush: Also you’re right about buzzwords. “SCRUM” still makes me cringe.

“the chicken people” made me laugh. I think they’re being bought out completely.

(Ohsnapkline) #14

[quote=“slicK.JTheJackal;194685”][quote=“Ohsnapkline;194680”]lol you make a good point
but I dont think its outdated, those people who design software for life support systems and heart monitors or anything in the medical field. or maybe the software that monitors rockets launched by NASA I don’t think you can afford to make mistakes.

definitely not outdated just different. sure you might land that programming job you always wanted throwing agile development around like it’s a buzzword but the problem with it is haste makes waste.

maybe the problem is just sheer man power, If that’s the case I sure hope support comes splash damage’s way being bought out by the chicken people who own warframe. (were they bought out? or just a portion of shares?)
[/quote]

The Waterfall model (before it was given the name) predates computers and was originally intended for engineering/construction stuff (i.e. building bridges or something) if my memory serves me correctly.

The nature of it can’t account for dealing with bugs or acting on feedback without modifying the model to the point of asking the question “why bother using waterfall in the first place?”. It was the go-to model for software development because it was what people knew but times change.

On the flipside, I suppose things like NASA and companies in the medical field have the best and brightest who can be expected to deliver unlike some of these lowly games devs who can’t make text change colour without breaking something else. Maybe it’s a sign of the times, we’re getting so inept we need methodologies to accomodate us. :blush: Also you’re right about buzzwords. “SCRUM” still makes me cringe.

“the chicken people” made me laugh. I think they’re being bought out completely.
[/quote]

as long as I get warframe loadout cards…AFTER bug fixes and new content, matchmaking

(Sorotia) #15

Credit costs are my only real complaint, I wish they could be a little lower.

(Dysfnal) #16

To OP
Yep.