Interesting...

(MrSmithy) #1

OK, lets see what happens to this situation (But im 100% sure that i can be banned hread can be closed\problem wont be solved).
Can u tell me, why people from SAME clan do this shit:

  1. If they are in opposite teams, 1 of them wait for free space to join his friend.
  2. Join his friend
  3. Making the match absolutely unplayable and voting NO when there is a shuffle vote
    They dont care about balance, they dont care about fair play, they just want to play together. Let me ask then - WHY i should fight against such “people” if its already unbalanced? (Especially if they are good and have discord eamspeak etc) WHY they are not banned for this? WHY stacks STILL CANNOT play ONLY vs stacks (Like PUBG, squads vs squads).
    Keep going, devs, 1 year ago there was the same problem which becomes bigger. Ah, and ofc these people are not banned or punished. Yeah, cool. Need an example? HUNDREDS! Quit the match 5 minutes ago with 2… I cant name them “people”. Oh, i think i cant post their names, but if i can, i will.
    Really, casual “fast” games are garbage full of biotrash calling players (Especially high-lvls) and i dont see any moves to solve this problem.

P.S. Also

  1. Why newbies can join servers with 10-20 lvls or higher? Why they cannot join such servers until they reach 10-20 lvl or smth?
  2. Still we have the best kick system, which affrod us to kick troll and bastards. Sarcasm
  3. Why tutorial is not mandatory for newbies?
    and more questions without solutions
    (I think u understand what i mean, english is not my native lang. And yeah, im pretty polite)
(Sorotia) #2

Because winning without effort is easy?

([ *O.C.B.* ] Wildcard) #3

They aren’t banned for this because they aren’t technically doing anything that is against any Terms of Service, End User Agreement, or Rules; also this become worse with the removal of level-bracketed servers with the advent of CMM. I can understand the frustration but I have to stress how this is still just a game, and even without stacking expecting balance in a casual format with drop-in drop-out joining is unrealistic; the issue with having groups play against groups already was answered with CMM. The problem is it can’t find players of equal skill level most of the time due to the skill range gap between the veterans and the newcomers continuously growing as most newcomers leave in a rage fairly quickly, and a lack of people using the system for such things to work; the veterans (I myself am one technically) use the server browser because its faster and easier to find games quickly with it.

The stacking is usually just from players wanting to have fun playing with friends (yes, exceptions exist I’m well aware of that), which is in no way a crime, or a ban-worthy offense; and there is no real party system nor a shuffle system that actually works effectively. Most of the time the in-game shuffle system makes the balance even worse, and most players decide to do it after the restart time limit; effectively fucking over everyone who actually tried to win the match by risking their work being all for naught as they are shuffled onto the losing team after having done all the work for the enemy, essentially. This is pretty much why most people either ignore shuffle votes, among the long-time players of the game, or vote no (unless the balance is truly abysmal, most of them will vote yes when it’s that bad, or other circumstances exist such as wanting to play with friends).

TL;DR - There is no actual party system as CMM is just glorified Ranked in Pubs, and has matches with even worse balance than actual Ranked matches, so you can’t really blame players for wanting to play with friends even if it means swapping over. The shuffle system is a pile of barely functioning garbage that is often abused by salty players (as I’ve seen almost constantly since the recent waves of newcomers and the departure of many long-time vets); so the remaining veteran players often will refuse to vote yes, or at all, due to having put up with this for 3+ years (and being fed up with the spammed votes). Not to mention, that having players swap over to balance it out themselves without the shuffle system actually ends up working better than the actual system itself most of the time. This is how public gaming is, in a nutshell, and as much as we don’t like when it messes up balance you’ll have to learn to live with it until a party system is added; or find a different game to play.

Honestly though, who are you to say they can’t play with their friends. Sure it may cause imbalances, but this is public games on the casual servers and no functional tools to circumvent this exist at the moment; so they really have no other recourse here.

(Press E) #4

Please keep it civil. The only part of this thread warranting any action is that it’s saltier than the dead sea.

But well, server browser matches are meant to be fast matches like you said. If you want balance, go play CMM. In my 1,200 something hours I rarely see people switch to stack a team. Happens sometimes, but not enough that it ruins the game for me.
DB is pretty low on toxicity too, all things considered. Most high level players I’ve seen are pretty friendly to new players, and only get toxic when someone else is being toxic. There are some exceptions, but they’re no saltier than the average new player usually.
TL;DR, just leave the server and go play CMM. It’s literally designed to prevent the unbalance you see in server browser matches.

As for your other points:

  1. DB used to have max level 5 servers and min level 10/20, but they were removed with CMM, since it puts low skill players together anyways. Min level 10 and especially min level 20 servers barely got used, just because DB doesn’t have a high enough playerbase to fill them.
  2. I agree the requirements to kick someone should be lowered, but it’s pretty rare that you actually have to kick anyone other than an AFK player.
  3. No clue why the tutorial isn’t mandatory, but I believe the devs are in the process of updating it anyways, so we might see changes with that.
(Muddy Muddy Mud Nade) #5

Well you can’t create stacks in normal server browser matches and you can’t switch teams in CMM, so… can’t really do stack v stack games.
I agree that it’s annoying, but there’s nothing wrong with friends wanting to play with friends. Some people just don’t like having fair games, but sometimes you just gotta take the hits, or leave. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

(K1X455) #6

(MrSmithy) #7

Well, i know that such answers will be here. The problem i described is the same in Paladins, but here its worse.

  1. Stop it. Devs wont make tutorial mandatory for newcommers. 1 year ago it wasnt. Now it isnt. How much time they need to make it? Eternity? The problem ISNT new such as teleporting near EV which they ALSO didnt solve and ALSO was there for a long time.
  2. The difference between good and bad people is that good people understand, that even if they want to play with friends, they can make match absolutely crap and let newbies suffer. Even if its casual. Listen, i will never beleive that there is NO solution to keep match balanced and play with friends while not breaking it. But now we have only 2 ways: or u can play with friends and match therefore will be unplayable, or u cannot play with friends, but there will be balance tho.
  3. That is not my problem, that veterans cant find enemies with the same skill\lvl (Or it could take alot of time)
  4. So why devs still cannot make shuffle good? STILL.
  5. Well, u was lucky then, if u didnt find high-lvl trolls, but its only UR subjective opinion (Like mine tho)

Solutions of some problems:

  1. We have a troll in match. Someone call a vote to kick him. We need 10 votes to do it. 8 people voted YES, 2 voted NO, others didnt even vote. Troll can still play.
    SOLUTION: when system sees that there is more than 60%-70% of positive votes, it will kick the troll (Same way for anything, like restarting map, shuffling) after 10 seconds or immediately.
  2. When match starts we can see that teams are already unbalanced.
    SOLUTION: make a GOOD system, which can shuffle team by lvl\overall KD\efficiency etc
  3. Newbies dont understand what they need. They dont want to watch tutorial.
    SOLUTION: or u make tutorial mandatory for everyone who is just created an account, or u make some quests for newbies - the newcommer has a BIG message on his screen (we need to sure that he will see it) that someone need ammo\heal o be revived. After completing this quest he can receive small credit\xp boost. I think then newcommers will try to be efficient to their teams (Or u can make a special skin for this quest, like “Savior: complete 10 quests as Aura”) or something.
  4. Problem about friends.
    SOLUTION: u can make “Clan wars”, which affords to play with ur friends vs other clans. Award must be an astounding thing bcuz otherwise no one will play it.

I came up with these solutions for 5 minutes, so, they can be a little messy

P.S. For future, casual not means it should be a garbage.
P.P.S For those who write “U can always leave the game, its nothing wrong to play with ur friends etc”. Guys, its not a solution of a problem which exists.

(MrSmithy) #8

Anyway, i leave the game for indefinite time, and that was my last post here. Thanks everyone

([ *O.C.B.* ] Wildcard) #9

@MrSmithy said:
P.S. For future, casual not means it should be a garbage.
P.P.S For those who write “U can always leave the game, its nothing wrong to play with ur friends etc”. Guys, its not a solution of a problem which exists.

Yes, the concepts of casual and garbage don’t go together by default; but the majority of matches will invariably be garbage because the majority of the player-base is newcomers who are inexperienced and, in comparison to a veteran of the game (though exceptions exist), usually have zero game-sense and are actually “hot garbage” at the game. As for your comment about a solution to playing with friends yeah there are technically solutions one could implement, but they’d be completely unreasonable for a casual environment with no party system; not to mention they’d be very user-hostile and would only push this games current path, further along at a brisker pace, into an early grave. The game has been in a rough patch for a good bit and one or two major mishaps will kill it for good if they aren’t careful.

Honestly though, if you were gonna make any suggestions towards fixing it you’d best actually spend time formulating the idea; spending 5 minutes putting together a cobbled together list of half-baked suggestions concocted during a moment of anger and frustration is the kind of thing that led to the developers (i.e. Splash Damage) ramming the “Nerf Hammer” so far up Phantom’s ass that he became a walking meme. With regards to their current track record, Splash Damage seems to have adopted the tactic of listening to whichever group squeals, whines and moans about the things the hardest, and by extension the loudest; instead of actually listening to the people who are actually approaching it calmly and know what they’re talking about. So let’s not make this even worse by making salt-filled suggestions here bub.

P.S. Something tells me you have difficulty “reading between the lines” here (assuming you even read my post), because it wouldn’t take a genius to put two-and-two together on the implications behind what I said; heck I more-or-less flat out said exactly why it’s unreasonable of you to be this hostile and aggressive over the matter (even going so far as throwing accusations at the long-time players and shaming them for wanting to actually play a multiplayer game with friends; I don’t know how this is such a foreign and difficult concept to you, but okay man.).

(kopyright) #10

@STARRYSOCK said:
If you want balance, go play CMM.

Just don’t expect any balance if you queue with a party of friends.

(MrSmithy) #11

Exception for -OCB-Wildcard:
I dont really understand, why its so difficult to understand absolutely clear speech (Imo, but still), maybe lack of mind, no idea (Yeah, u may think its veiled insult, but i think so about ur last comment too, so 1:1). I read my messages twice, read urs. Dude, i DIDNT tell that i SHAME players for playing with their friends, i ONLY resent about CONSEQUENCE such as:

  1. Making matches unplayable;
  2. Refusal from shuffling teams bcuz it will break their “party”;
    And then i suggested a solution which helps NEWCOMMERS not to SUFFER and helps PLAYERS to play with FRIENDS (Both sides), calls “Clan wars” with WORTHY award. I understand, that it still not 100% solve the problem, but it greatly reduces amount of such situations, is it hard to understand?
    P.S. “WHY they are not banned for this?” - this sentence was about CONSEQUENCE (Which i described ABOVE), not about playing with friends and yeah:
  3. I shouldnt make good solutions, bcuz its not my job (Im not a huge fan of the game). I only suggested ways, which devs can develop in something better.
  4. If u understand, that playing with friends may cause unbalance, that there is no tool to solve it, then why u still endure this? Are u masochist? I love Paladins, i spend about 2k hours on this game, but last patches killed the game for me. And i leave it. That was hard to do it, but i did. Where is ur logic then - no idea (If this problem doenst cause any inconvenience for u, then just skip it).
  5. I dont think that rage people can came up something, like what i said.
    Last thing - again, i will never beleive that there is NO WAY to help both sides (newcommers and veterans with their friends). Lets finish this talk, due to misunderstandings, no need to continue.
(Press E) #12

@MrSmithy said:
Anyway, i leave the game for indefinite time, and that was my last post here. Thanks everyone

Last post. Hmmmmm

@kopyright said:

@STARRYSOCK said:
If you want balance, go play CMM.

Just don’t expect any balance if you queue with a party of friends.

Never said it was perfect. Even solo CMM can be pretty unbalanced sometimes. Just in theory, it’s supposed to be the mode that favours balance over speed, rather than the server browser which favours speed over balance.
If OP is gonna complain about balance, they should at least be playing the right mode, lol

(martha_smith) #13

@K1X455 said:

no need to hide names mayQ Luke aka @K1X455

(Dr_Plantboss) #14

LEVEL ≠ SKILL

([ *O.C.B.* ] Wildcard) #15

@MrSmithy said:
Exception for -OCB-Wildcard:
I dont really understand, why its so difficult to understand absolutely clear speech (Imo, but still), maybe lack of mind, no idea (Yeah, u may think its veiled insult, but i think so about ur last comment too, so 1:1). I read my messages twice, read urs. Dude, i DIDNT tell that i SHAME players for playing with their friends, i ONLY resent about CONSEQUENCE such as:

  1. Making matches unplayable;
  2. Refusal from shuffling teams bcuz it will break their “party”;
    And then i suggested a solution which helps NEWCOMMERS not to SUFFER and helps PLAYERS to play with FRIENDS (Both sides), calls “Clan wars” with WORTHY award. I understand, that it still not 100% solve the problem, but it greatly reduces amount of such situations, is it hard to understand?
    P.S. “WHY they are not banned for this?” - this sentence was about CONSEQUENCE (Which i described ABOVE), not about playing with friends and yeah:
  3. I shouldnt make good solutions, bcuz its not my job (Im not a huge fan of the game). I only suggested ways, which devs can develop in something better.
  4. If u understand, that playing with friends may cause unbalance, that there is no tool to solve it, then why u still endure this? Are u @$!#? I love Paladins, i spend about 2k hours on this game, but last patches killed the game for me. And i leave it. That was hard to do it, but i did. Where is ur logic then - no idea (If this problem doenst cause any inconvenience for u, then just skip it).
  5. I dont think that rage people can came up something, like what i said.
    Last thing - again, i will never beleive that there is NO WAY to help both sides (newcommers and veterans with their friends). Lets finish this talk, due to misunderstandings, no need to continue.

Apparently you don’t understand that your whining about switching teams, and creating a post on a public forum specifically to complain about it, is shaming and faulting players by design alone; not to mention that banning for such a thing in general is already a horrid idea as you can’t discern the situation from a team swap alone. So you can believe whatever you want, but there’s a difference between reality and ideals. Sure a solution may one day be implemented, but as of now there isn’t so your whining over the matter is pointless; also no I’m not stupid I’m just mature about how I choose to handle the state of the game. I realize and acknowledge that it’s just that, a game, and not worth getting this upset over in a casual setting; if people wanna play it that way let them, it’s their right to do so with no restrictions that say otherwise in place.

Not to mention that, as you said it yourself, it isn’t your job; so then why did you make this post in the first place, other than to whine about your experiences to an audience? You don’t make the rules and don’t work for the developers, and thus you can only make suggestions; so why not actually make ones worth more than a pile of useless excrement and refuse by putting some effort into it? The answer is simple, it’s because you’d rather push the work, the problem, onto anyone but yourself on this matter; because you can’t be bothered to put aside your ego, and personal issues with it, to see the bigger picture. You’d rather the developers have to waste countless hours fleshing out your shoddily constructed idea into something feasible, taking away from time that would be devoted to much more pressing issues, rather than put in some time to make a proper suggestion. So spare me your pathetic attempts to play the “big boy” here, because you aren’t fooling anyone.

(Mr.Cuddlesworth) #16

Play Phantom
Hide in corner
When one of them have low hp shoot in back
Teabag to assert your superior skill

(martha_smith) #17

@“Mr.Cuddlesworth”

but we cannot see the health of enemy player …

(GatoCommodore) #18

ive seen newbies as low as level 5 plays better than level 20 and a level 20 who shoots as bad as level 1