Intentional suicides

[Humbugsen]

I totaly agree with you on the big TDM part, and i think the only cause of that feeling is : The spawn mechanics (times, location, etc…) I never felt like i was playing TDM on ET (at least on competitive, but i almost never played pub). For now suicide is so pointless that i dont even remember wich key i bound to it. During last cup stream, the only excitement on teamplay i saw was the collective spawn back suicide of dMon on Underground…Wow…Everything else was just boring, rush, die, rush, die, rush, die. With competent players on both side and these spawn mechanics you just cant expect more (and that was exactly the same on Brink, which made me and my team give up after 2 months).

I played pubs most of the time in ET (on ETpro servers) and it always felt like competitive. Teamplay was absolute intuitive and required and it never felt like deathmatch. Thats why i enjoyed pubs and ET soo much, i played it for over ten years, sure with breaks, but i always came back.
I also blame the spawn system, the linear maps and maybe also the unlimited sprint/speed differences for the TDM feeling of DB.
When you played ET like TDM you lost the map for sure, when you play DB like TDM you win for sure as long as you aim better.

[Szakalot]

What everyone in here seems to be forgetting, is that selfkilling is… very, very viable for the attacking team as well. Ya’ll make it sound like it’s a defensive oriented mechanic only. There’s a lot more to it than it simply being used as a tool to “get out of bad positioning”. It’s much more of a delay tactic than anything.

that is less true though for symmetrical spawns. i.e. selfkilling on attack is more useful if spawns are staggered and you can take advantage of that

[BalloO]

that is less true though for symmetrical spawns. i.e. selfkilling on attack is more useful if spawns are staggered and you can take advantage of that

Exactly! This is why suicide is not a problem since with the current spawn system it’s useless, on both sides. Spawn system HAS TO BE like it was on ET! Suicide has to remain the tactical tool it always was, and this game will have everything it needs to be a great competitive title. (with demos and sdk of course)

[Glottis-3D]

Exactly! This is why suicide is not a problem since with the current spawn system it’s useless, on both sides. Spawn system HAS TO BE like it was on ET! Suicide has to remain the tactical tool it always was, and this game will have everything it needs to be a great competitive title. (with demos and sdk of course)

thats why we need asymetrical spawntimes.
20/30
15/25
so that we get 2 more things to throw into the game
-timing enemy spawn.
-tactical selfkill to get advantage, or to minimize disadvantage
etc

[BalloO]

couldnt agree more

[Zenity]

If spawn times are asymmetric, I think I would actually prefer having both spawn timers visible on the HUD. I know a lot of people will scoff at the idea since it takes away the whole recon element (which is fun no doubt), but it’s a pretty obscure game element all in all which would be made a lot more accessible if spawn timers were visible at all times.

Ultimately, figuring out the spawn times has never been very hard in ET and many teams used scripts to remind themselves of the spawn times anyway. So it wouldn’t fundamentally change the game mechanics, just make them a bit more accessible.

There would be other ways to make the suicide mechanic more understandable if you were to go down this route, like a visual and/or audible warning as you get close to the respawn time possibly with a “press X to respawn for the next wave in 3… 2… 1…” label. Of course the XP penalty would also make no sense in that case (and arguably already doesn’t).

[Glottis-3D]

[QUOTE=Zenity;527814]If spawn times are asymmetric, I think I would actually prefer having both spawn timers visible on the HUD. I know a lot of people will scoff at the idea since it takes away the whole recon element (which is fun no doubt), but it’s a pretty obscure game element all in all which would be made a lot more accessible if spawn timers were visible at all times.
[/QUOTE]

main point in asymetry is that there are times, when it is strategically important to push and punish opponent, because you’ll die and insta respawn, and he dies on full.

this whole point is to bring arythmic gameplay instead of repetitive (and thus boring) gameplay that we have now.
what we have now is spawn-run-die-wait-spawn chain copy-pasted for 15 minuts for both teams. that is bery boring and annoying.

with asymetric spawn your team should gather and make a push to gain advantage by gibbing on full. taking aout brainless TDM, and bringing some sence into the fight.

[Szakalot]

[QUOTE=Zenity;527814]If spawn times are asymmetric, I think I would actually prefer having both spawn timers visible on the HUD. I know a lot of people will scoff at the idea since it takes away the whole recon element (which is fun no doubt), but it’s a pretty obscure game element all in all which would be made a lot more accessible if spawn timers were visible at all times.

Ultimately, figuring out the spawn times has never been very hard in ET and many teams used scripts to remind themselves of the spawn times anyway. So it wouldn’t fundamentally change the game mechanics, just make them a bit more accessible.

There would be other ways to make the suicide mechanic more understandable if you were to go down this route, like a visual and/or audible warning as you get close to the respawn time possibly with a “press X to respawn for the next wave in 3… 2… 1…” label. Of course the XP penalty would also make no sense in that case (and arguably already doesn’t).[/QUOTE]

Yup, spawnwaves should be visible for both teams. They are now anywyas, with ur spawn timer being the opponent’s

[Strid]

The idea of “suiciding” to avoid full respawn time, replenish ammo/hp or whatever sounds more like a design flaw than anything. You might argue about “competitive skilzzz” or whatever you call it, the concept is weird and I’d say even laughable for anyone not coming from “ET competitive scene”.

It makes the game look like it’s broken.

[Glottis-3D]

[QUOTE=Strid;529698]The idea of “suiciding” to avoid full respawn time, replenish ammo/hp or whatever sounds more like a design flaw than anything. You might argue about “competitive skilzzz” or whatever you call it, the concept is weird and I’d say even laughable for anyone not coming from “ET competitive scene”.

It makes the game look like it’s broken.[/QUOTE]
respawning after you…well…WAS KILLED!!! isnt wierd?
i mean you are dead, and only way to return back is to become a zombie, we all know that