Why? Can you explain? The only missing parts doesnt look like tricky to code to me… I feel like they dont want to reproduce the system, not that they cant. I heard that traditional stopwatch system is too hard to understand for newcomers, but hey, all the sytems you proposed so far are even more complicated. Everytime you discover a game you have to adapt and it takes time to fully understand it, doesnt mean you cant enjoy it …
One more time, sorry if im not clear enough
Personally I’d love to see it removed. Would add a new way of playing. If you are stupid enough to be pushing on full thats your fault. Time to punish bad positioning rather than being able to suicide back into a good one. Ex et players will cry about this but it’s about time we pushed changes for the wider audience.
so you mean keep spawn waves, but add +x seconds personally, when suicide?
Add them tp the following spawn wave. Why reward a player for self killing. Saying it out loud is ridiculous!
This is basically why I brought this thing up. In my eyes suiciding is just a get out of jail for free-card in a sense but since it’s apparently been in SD games for over a decade I don’t see it being changed, not that it’s a major thing anyways.
well as i stated before. i like being able to suicide back. and get advantage out of it.
Yeah sure, its time to remove everything that make games hard to master but realy enjoyable. Keep it simple, let’s play passively and camp, Oh wait, let’s play CS then… The most i read from you, the most i think you re totaly wrong. Games dont need to be easy to have large audience. Just look at dota or even LoL. These games are fun to play (which DB is) but need realy time to master and be good at. And still they have realy large audience. Stop thinking all players are dumb.
It would create all these silly situations though, where you try to get yourself killed, hold of killing somebody, teamkill, “almost teamkill”, etc. What if you fall to your death. Skip a spawn wave? Harsh penalty if yes, abusable if not.
Everything considered, allowing suicide as a valid strategy just seems to be the lesser evil. The only elegant “fix” IMO would be to come up with a spawn system where players do not benefit from timely death, which I guess is what is being discussed right now.
you’re misreading the situation. Its not about dumbing the game down for newbie players. Its about making some elements of the game more punishing so that it does not become a glorified TDM. Which is what it feels like atm. Its a great TDM, with great teamplay and firefights, but it doesn’t go beyond TDM.
Not everything that requires skill has to be welcome in the game.
I recall Starcraft I players whining about Starcraft II UI where you can move more than just 16 units in a single control group. How ridiculous of them Starcraft I players saying ‘hey its a skill to be able to micro 6 control groups around, dumbing the game down for noobs!’
[QUOTE=Zenity;527653]It would create all these silly situations though, where you try to get yourself killed, hold of killing somebody, teamkill, “almost teamkill”, etc. What if you fall to your death. Skip a spawn wave? Harsh penalty if yes, abusable if not.
Everything considered, allowing suicide as a valid strategy just seems to be the lesser evil. The only elegant “fix” IMO would be to come up with a spawn system where players do not benefit from timely death, which I guess is what is being discussed right now.[/QUOTE]
This!
A minimum spawn time (3-5 seconds?) would solve this problem considerably. Making the optimal time to ‘/kill’ at 5 seconds before spawn, lessering the efficiency of charging the opponent and killing at 0.001 seconds before new wave.
[QUOTE=Szakalot;527670]This!
A minimum spawn time (3-5 seconds?) would solve this problem considerably. Making the optimal time to ‘/kill’ at 5 seconds before spawn, lessering the efficiency of charging the opponent and killing at 0.001 seconds before new wave.[/QUOTE]
That is…
Not too bad in my opinion. Simply make someone who taps out after x seconds before the upcoming wave join the one after that. It still allows for this run-in-do-as-much-damage-as-possible-die scenario no doubt, but at least you are losing a few seconds from the game clock for that.
Aye!
in the end its about decreasing the efficiency of the tactic, and while ET meta revolved around defence charging attackers with kamikaze nades and such, I really don’t see why we can’t move away from it towards a system where individual lives are little bit more worthwhile.
This is the sentiment I disagree with.
Tactic is fine. Don’t touch it (unless you want to go in the opposite direction and make its use more efficient!)
XP-wise, using this gives you HUGE penalties, as it not only gives you the immidiate penalty, it also resets killing streaks etc.
[QUOTE=Runeforce;527691]This is the sentiment I disagree with.
Tactic is fine. Don’t touch it (unless you want to go in the opposite direction and make its use more efficient!)
XP-wise, using this gives you HUGE penalties, as it not only gives you the immidiate penalty, it also resets killing streaks etc.[/QUOTE]
i’m talking a penalty insofar playing to win, not some XP which wouldn’t matter in competition.
I do understand that. And I disagree. Remove the xp-penalty (because it’s counter-intuitive,) and otherwise leave the system as is, I say.
No offense man, but you’re just talking like the rest of casual players who only started playing this game, with a peculiar difference in that you apparently played ET before and you are used to the mechanic (that’s coming from your statement about XP penalty… like, what? How is a penalty for performing a move that sets you back counterintuitive?). Which only proves my first point in that whatever’s counterintuitive does not warrant being modified since people can just GET USED TO IT LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING WOULD DO. What we should ACTUALLY discuss is whether a particular mechanic is balanced in regards to both sides of the conflict and also either fun or not annoying. And I don’t see how suicides are annoying, since, contrary to my previous statement, you actually get a kill credit if somebody you were shooting at suicided in fight.
Counter-intuitive in that it might give the (wrong) impression that selfkilling to sync up with your team or other uses of tactical selfkilling, is a thing you should not be using, when you obviously should, especially in competitive. I would prefer not to get too hung up on the XP, though. Point is, it works like it’s supposed to, and should not be nerfed (or complexified.)
What everyone in here seems to be forgetting, is that selfkilling is… very, very viable for the attacking team as well. Ya’ll make it sound like it’s a defensive oriented mechanic only. There’s a lot more to it than it simply being used as a tool to “get out of bad positioning”. It’s much more of a delay tactic than anything.
I totaly agree with you on the big TDM part, and i think the only cause of that feeling is : The spawn mechanics (times, location, etc…) I never felt like i was playing TDM on ET (at least on competitive, but i almost never played pub). For now suicide is so pointless that i dont even remember wich key i bound to it. During last cup stream, the only excitement on teamplay i saw was the collective spawn back suicide of dMon on Underground…Wow…Everything else was just boring, rush, die, rush, die, rush, die. With competent players on both side and these spawn mechanics you just cant expect more (and that was exactly the same on Brink, which made me and my team give up after 2 months).