Intelligence Mission Concern

(madoule) #81

another thing to be kept in mind. sometimes maps are (maybe unintentionally) made in a way that attackers actually are in advantage. the defender have to really good to keep the attackers at bay or even stalemate. whether team a or b is better in the end eventually only show after a rematch on the same map.

L4D2 maybe a bit far fetched but especially the first maps in the dead center campaign have to be won by the survivors. if they don’t the infected are dominating. yet a huge amount of rage-quits in those cases steal the chance to have a real comparison…

(tokamak) #82

I would rather not. Bots pollute servers. The mere possibility that the guy you’re fighting could be a bot rather than a player is robs the fun from me. This was the case with UT and it’s been the case with every single game in the last twelve years.

L4D2 maybe a bit far fetched but especially the first maps in the dead center campaign have to be won by the survivors. if they don’t the infected are dominating. yet a huge amount of rage-quits in those cases steal the chance to have a real comparison…

L4D2, even in survivor mode is hardly competitive. It’s still a co-op game rather than an actual match. Lasting till the end doesn’t make you feel like you’ve won, it makes you feel like you reached a goal.

(Herandar) #83

Why? Is it because bots don’t care that you are teabagging them? Are you a griefer?? It’s only fun if you are ruining someone else’s day?

Does killing level 0 players instead of max level players also “rob the fun” for you?

(trigg3r) #84

i agree with toka, if i wanna play bots i’d play offline.
I rather play with just 4 or 6 ppl on each team, than complete the server with bots.

(Cankor) #85

I agree as well. It’s simply a lot more fun with real people. It’s a social game, it’s a shared experience.

(madoule) #86

well, i can’t disagree but just what we’ve heard about the bots in the news and articles my hopes are high. IMO still better than a server with an odd number of people and missing the SD coined sweetspot.

well than you are absolutely better than me, but that wasn’t my point. it wasn’t about the difficulty but merely design! some maps are built giving a higher chance for team attack as good as the team defend may be. if sides are switched a comparison can be drawn based on time more than on goal achieved or not.

(AnthonyDa) #87

Ever heard of versus mode? duh.

(tokamak) #88

[QUOTE=Herandar;263457]Why? Is it because bots don’t care that you are teabagging them? Are you a griefer?? It’s only fun if you are ruining someone else’s day?
[/QUOTE]

Actually, yes, a part lies in the schadenfreude, but that’s by far not everything. It’s the mind games that you play with your opponent and the opponent plays with you. There’s no pscyhology involved with bots, you can’t put pressure on them, you can’t scare them, you can’t give them a false sense of safity or let them become cocky even arrogant in their style. You can’t hold grudges and feuds against bots, you can’t mislead them. All the psychology is gone.

Neurologists even did experiments a decade ago with Quake 2 multiplayer. The brain responded totally differently to human players than to bots. This hasn’t changed since then.

Bots in my match are a major turn-off for me, and therefore, I’d like to see them turned off instead.

(Wraith) #89

[QUOTE=tokamak;263509]Actually, yes, a part lies in the schadenfreude, but that’s by far not everything. It’s the mind games that you play with your opponent and the opponent plays with you. There’s no pscyhology involved with bots, you can’t put pressure on them, you can’t scare them, you can’t give them a false sense of safity or let them become cocky even arrogant in their style. You can’t hold grudges and feuds against bots, you can’t mislead them. All the psychology is gone.

Neurologists even did experiments a decade ago with Quake 2 multiplayer. The brain responded totally differently to human players than to bots. This hasn’t changed since then.

Bots in my match are a major turn-off for me, and therefore, I’d like to see them turned off instead.[/QUOTE]

An excellent point.

(tokamak) #90

I meant versus with survivor. The sentence actually doesn’t make sense otherwise.

(Cankor) #91

Well, there should be an option to have them there just to balance, So if one side has four guys and the other 5, a bot fills in for the guys with 4. If another player joins, he could only join the side with 4 guys, taking the place of the bot. On top of this, you have a minimum number of players to starta agme, so bots fill out those spots. Lets a game start with bots and as people join they replace the bots so the total players doesn’t change until there are enough real players to go over the minimum (at which point you just have the one on the side that could be down one player).

I think you can do this in ETQW?

(tokamak) #92

I don’t like that either. It muddles the certainty that I’m playing with human players. I also know I’m not the only person avoiding the bots on the server so in a way bots also have a repelling effect. Sure they keep the players on the server entertained, but it will take longer than just having players on a server.

What you need is a BLIND lobby system that people can join. Not letting them pick the server (they can set preferences) is okay as long as they’re confident everyone is doing the same. L4D is great in this.

(Cankor) #93

[QUOTE=tokamak;263594]
What you need is a BLIND lobby system that people can join. Not letting them pick the server (they can set preferences) is okay as long as they’re confident everyone is doing the same. L4D is great in this.[/QUOTE]

What, always? Why would clans bother hosting a server in this case?

(Nail) #94

i’m not getting this, are you talking about PC, console or both ?
I figured PC would be like always, find a server or 6 you like, play there

(DarkangelUK) #95

Isn’t that what the 360 has been doing from the beginning with match making? Some PC games also had this option, usually referred to as Quick Match.

(SockDog) #96

I don’t get how playing with half teams or sitting in a lobby/warmup for 20 minutes is preferable to just playing a game with some slots filled by bots until the server reaches capacity. Likewise for people dropping out of a game, a bot is preferable to the game just collapsing.

Effective matchmaking should fill in those slots unless there isn’t enough players online and in that case you’d be in limbo not playing anyway. The importance seems to be that bots are clearly identified in game and when match making/browsing games so that logical priorities can be made.

(Cankor) #97

[QUOTE=SockDog;263620]I don’t get how playing with half teams or sitting in a lobby/warmup for 20 minutes is preferable to just playing a game with some slots filled by bots until the server reaches capacity. Likewise for people dropping out of a game, a bot is preferable to the game just collapsing.

Effective matchmaking should fill in those slots unless there isn’t enough players online and in that case you’d be in limbo not playing anyway. The importance seems to be that bots are clearly identified in game and when match making/browsing games so that logical priorities can be made.[/QUOTE]

exactly, that’s the whole point. And if the bots are credable team mates it will work. No, it’s not as good as real people, but dismissing them as temporary fill-ins is too limiting.

(Striker92) #98

I would prefer no bots. Playing with real people is much more enjoyable then playing against bots, and i wouldnt mind waiting in Warm-up. Some of the best times ive had playing etqw was in warm up, Husky golf anyone:

Sometimes i prefer a game with less numbers so i can muck around rather then always having to compete with bots. This is also the reason i didnt like the idea of when an objective isnt complete after 5mins the game ends (or something along those lines). I enjoyed being held on the first objective for 10mins and then getting on a good role and then having a nail biting finishon the last objective. But in my view Bots are fine to fill in for offline spots, but if i play online i would rather play with less numbers and real players. But thats just my opinion

(Nail) #99

on PC I don’t think there will be a problem finding no-bot servers, on consoles, I have a feeling they’re used to playing with and against AI and won’t be so selective

(Iur'Tae'Mont) #100

I would rather have 2 full teams with no Team killers or folks that Rage quit after getting turned into Swiss Cheese. Barring that, I would prefer bots keeping the teams the same size and no report feature so I can kill anyone who TKs me.