Instagibs - Sniper Rifles & Explosives

(Maverix) #21

Personally I don’t see the problem with the insta gib. If someone using a bolt action successfully lands a headshot on me, then they deserve to gib me. It’s hard to get headshots with a bolt action in a game where it’s so fast paced and everyone is jumping around. There’s been a lot of moments where I was able to close to gap on a Vassili and take them out.

(Chris Mullins) #22

[quote=“affableTricycle;93940”]Sorry if I came off as angry or confrontational. If anything I’m just excited.

…and frustrated that this took so long :P[/quote]

Haha no problem :slight_smile:

(_retired_) #23

Sounds really good.

(neverplayseriou) #24

So my question just is, where can I get Vassili and the loadout I purchased for him refunded? Without instagibbing I would see no incentive for using Vassili over Redeye with the grandeur/pdp.

(Demolama) #25

If you think his ability to insta-gib is what made him better than Redeye you’ve been relying on the insta-gib crutch too much

(neverplayseriou) #26

@Demolama it is what makes him good, why would I go through all the trouble to pull of a headshot on a merc to then seeing him get revived before I can get another shot at his body?

And to me redeye would be better than vassili without instagibs because I prefer redeye his abilities.

(watsyurdeal) #27

The thing is he has no cooldown, no wait, he can instantly gib all 5 enemy team mates, granted that takes considerable skill, but even killing 2 people instantly with no chance for a revive turns a fight to 5 v 3 on competitive. It’s not balanced compared to Fragger, who can gib people, but only once every 16 seconds assuming he throws his nade immediately AND lands it. Very different rules here.

And the speed and pace of the game is irrelevant, people can do it quite easily and have in comp, sure it’s harder now with the things they’ve added, but it’s still very possible.

Personally, I don’t mind the change TOO much, but I do definitely worry Medics becoming far too powerful. Reviving is a good mechanic but it is also a frustrating one. Leaves not a lot of room to gib someone to finish them off.

But then again it’s too early to call, since if this is true, this means if I kill someone with a headshot from the M4, and they were already lit, I could theoretically shave off a shot needed to gib.

Heck, actually this might make the Grandeur and Dreiss even better, a subtle buff that makes them better than other guns, quicker gib time.

(Chris Mullins) #28

Will have a chat to the team when we’re all in tomorrow morning and see what we can do. As this involves gun balance etc. it makes it a little trickier to implement just as a weekend event for example. I shall update you with more info when I have it :slight_smile:

(Pecka) #29

I would just add here that I completely support Demolamas suggestion (so it works like in RTCW)

(DMaster2) #30

[quote=“stayfreshshoe;18773”]Hey all,

Just wanted to get your thoughts on the following changes we’re now currently testing internally:

  • Removing automatic instagibs on Bolt Action Sniper Rifle Headshots
  • Removing automatic instagibs from explosives, such as Frag Grenades

This change would mean that instagibs would still be possible if the target is on low health and the damage ‘eats’ through the incapped health.

To compensate, we have made Bolt Action Sniper Rifles gib downed bodies in one shot, regardless of hit location, and increased the maximum inner damage for affected explosives, while maintaining the same outer damage as before.

Thoughts?[/quote]
Rip Vassili
At least keep them for the FEL, which is currently the worst of the two bolt action. Please don’t make a change just to keep the FEL useless AGAIN.

(fancypants) #31

Remove all kinds of insta gib from the game, and I´m happy

(Eox) #32

Seems legit. We will have to know how it’ll do in game though.

(JLeon15) #33

I think this is the most stupid idea, it will remove the fear of just running out there without the possibility of getting killed by a sniper. Everyone will stop using them, and just check the amount of snipers out there, there aren’t even much from what I’ve seen, if it’s that easy to snipe then why don’t everyone use it? I guess this will kill snipers and the interesting thing of using them. If you want to nerf them a little bit, do it by changing the amount of bullets or similar things, not by removing the insta gib. To get the insta gib you need to hit the head which is not that easy as many people suggest, again they just cry about it but yet they can’t be the ones using it.

(JLeon15) #34

Totally agree.

(Sagan on Roids) #35

Yes! We’ve been calling for these changes for awhile now, so it’s nice to see the devs are listening :slight_smile:

I wouldn’t mind if the Fel-ix kept the instagibbing power but was slightly nerfed in some other way. As it stands there is no real reason for a competent player to pick the Fel-ix over the MOA, but letting the Fel-ix still instagib opponents (at a slower rate of fire) would make it a hard choice.

BTW we held a meeting on DBN’s TeamSpeak a short while ago with most of the top teams captains, and after spending a long time debating, we all agreed that removing instagib from the MOA while leaving it on the Fel-ix (with some kind of additional nerf) would be our ideal outcome.

(avidCow) #36

Sounds good, Shoe

(N8o) #37

I like the idea of removing the insta-gib on Vas, but the frag grenade I am a bit concerned about. A well timed frag grenade seems more balanced than a Vas sniper headshot. You get one every 17 seconds, and it has to be close(ish) to gib a player, or a direct hit. I can see how insta-gibs in general can kill momentum in competitive, so yea, go for it! Just see how it works out.

Listen to the community and your game will probably get a LOT better. (The good side of the community, that is…)

(Amerika) #38

I’ll respond to Frag grenades mines etc. gibbing first. I don’t really think a change here is needed. It rarely happens now compared to the past and I am fine with the status quo being maintained in this area. I’ve rarely heard a peep from anybody at any level gripe too much about this after the damage and speed reduction from last time.

Also remove Sparks ability to gib even at low HP.

Posting the short version first and then my logic below.

SHORT VERSION:

  • Keep the PDP exactly the same
  • Keep the Moa exactly the same except remove insta-gibs
  • Make FEL IX the heavy hitter rifle that’s high risk. Reduce RoF, increase reload time and lower mag size to 2 or 3, do not raise damage so you don’t get the 1 hit body shots on sparks/aura but KEEP it’s ability to insta-gib (and maybe raise the headshot multiplier for this gun only so it can kill/gib Thunder when he’s released since it originally could since 80 damage x2 = 160 = Thunder’s HP.).

I think that would give each rifle a unique identity while not messing with gameplay too much. But, again, even if the insta-gib was completely removed from the game and that’s all that changed I’d be OK with that.

LONG VERSION BELOW

As far as the sniper rifle gib goes I believe, even if you simply took it away, that it’s a positive change for the game. The Moa, and to a lesser extent the FEL IX, make too big of an impact on how a match plays out. A couple successive headshots in a row and you have a massive advantage before you’ve even pushed. That’s the main issue most people who plays/cares about competition has a gripe about. So I am all for it even if things play out exactly as you stated. However, I’d like to propose an alternative solution which I’ll detail below.

Currently Vassili has access to three rifles. The PDP which is an semi-auto sniper and has been recently tuned and works fairly well and is sometimes seen in competition. We have the Moa which is the headshot machine that pretty much everyone uses. And then we have the FEL IX which is basically a slightly crappier version of the Moa. It used to be the more heavy hitting sniper when you could kill Aura with it in one body shot (and you’d be able to kill Sparks with it now too) but it sort of lost it’s identity and simply became the crappy Moa when it’s damage was lowered to 79 (it was 80).

What I would like to see is a re-work of the FEL IX. These are all just suggestions of potential paths to take so people don’t flip your lids :slight_smile: I’d like to see the FEL IX get a small rate of fire decrease, a reload time increase, drop the bullets in the mag down to 2 or 3 and LEAVE the headshot insta-gib (and let it headshot Thunder who will probably have 160HP but not Rhino).

Keep the PDP the same as it has it’s niche and uses. Keep the Moa the exact same but remove the insta-gib so that gameplay does not change. Then make the FEL IX the heavy hitter gun that is high risk/high reward but it won’t simply be spammed like the Moa is today due to slower RoF, reload and small mag size. It gives each gun a niche while making them all potentially useful.

(Sprix) #39

The change sounds awesome Shoe.

Thanks for sharing this with the community!

(Lapfinou) #40

I’ll just copy-paste this very good comment about the matter from /u/Demolama :
[spoiler]Dirty Bomb is similar to how RTCW/ W:ET handled player’s living health and gibbing health pools.
In RTCW you had your health and gib pools the same (e.g. 140 max health and -140 gib health). Except for Medics who could reach max health everyone else had between 100 and 120 living health, but regardless of their living health pool everyone had the same gib health of -140.
The Mauser sniper rifle did 80 to body and 160 to head. This meant that all classes could be killed with one headshot, but it also meant that unless a person was super low on their living health they could not be insta-gibbed with one shot.
In Dirty Bomb the player’s living health and gib health used to be exactly the same. So Fragger with 150 living health used to also have -150 gib health pool. But now any merc with >100 living health has a gib pool of -100; 90 living health mercs have -90 gibbed health.
However, Dirty Bomb takes a different philosophy with their boltaction sniper rifles than RTCW did with the Mauser. So the 79/158 dmg Felix not only insta-kills every merc with one shot (except Thunder and Rhino) it also instantly bypasses the gib health pool completely, making a kill shot a gib shot.
A Fragger with 150 living health + -100 gibbed health points when shot by a Felix should still have -92 gibbed health left.
A Sparks with 80 living health ±90 gibbed health points should still be left with -12 gibbed health
It’s just bad game design to allow any weapon to bypass the gib health pool. Nades, Mines, etc. don’t bypass it. If you are on the edge of a nade blast you may die but you are not guaranteed to be gibbed by it.
MOA and Felix have a MUCH faster recovery time to shoot a follow-up shot than the Mauser in RTCW, and yet in RTCW a good sniper could easily gib a down player with a follow-up shot. There is no reason why MOA/Felix need to one shot insta-gib at all, except on already wounded players[/spoiler]

Basically, I’d love no weapon to actually be able to instagib a full health player, but for a wounded one, no comment, MOA and FELIX should be able to do it.