Inspirational shootout scenes from movies (and the way shouts work)


(tokamak) #1

Been going on a movie binge this weekend and it hit me that certain action movie scenes are a great way to draw inspiration for gameplay from.

Each action movie has it’s own rules and it’s own physics. There are ground rules of what a human is capable of doing. How accurate guns are, how fast people can move and how much they can survive.

Some movies has the hero lay down the enemies en masse without breaking a sweat, the other time the hero is the underdog and the enemies are invincible. Sometimes you see two opposing parties clash and hit nothing but cardboard boxes. Sometimes enemies are intentionally stupid etc etc.

The robbery scene from the movie ‘Heat’ kind of stands out in this one because it pitches two sides that are matched quite well. The rules are only slightly over the top meaning that the people involve perform slightly over what you would expect in real life.

Anyway, it leads to a tense scene and it really gives a nice feel for how I think a shoot-out in a game should play out:

http://vimeo.com/60954124

One thing I can take away from this is how important lean is in lengthening a firefight without increasing the TTK. I still think that leaving it out in DB is a huge mistake.

But more importantly:

Take note of the sounds. If you close your eyes you really develop a sense for the pace and rhythm in the fighting (I really start to sound like a sociopath now). It makes me believe there’s far more possible in sound engineering than most games are currently doing.

IE, if a lone fighter gets hit by a bullet then it makes sense not to make a whole lot of noise, unless the pain is so severe that it’s more down to a sound of anguish (which happens in the movie) OR the damage is so lethal that the player loses the capacity to make any sound at all.

However, if someone gets hit near a team-mate, it makes sense to shout-out as a form of warning. In that moment it becomes more important to let your friends know that you’re being hit and that the position you’re all in is vulnerable to incoming fire.

And it goes even further. If ANOTHER friendly player sees or hears his team-mate getting hit he may also make a warning sound. This will sound different from the person being hit, it will sound calmer and more composed as it only serves to warn fellow people around him.

A few simple rules, algorithms like this will cause waves of audible-information to ripple through the combatants, both enemies and friendlies and it will give players a better sense of what’s going on around them. Players will be able to extract a great deal of combat awareness just from the shouts alone. And combat awareness is definitely what DB needs more of.

In that way I think the mercs in DB need to start make situational noises when they’re being hit out of which players can draw high-quality information.

The game needs some sort of psychological sound system that makes the shouts/yells/cries very context-sensitive.

TLDR:
-Movies are a great way to convey the pace of action you want to see. Do you guys have any favourites? Mind you, scenes that can be turned into multiplayer action. Scenes where one guy lays down a horde of enemies are only useful for singleplayer.

  • Player sounds need to be more psychologically driven so that everyone involved can develop a better sense of what’s going on.

(stealth6) #2

Or you could implement the fireteam overlay (it’s around here somewhere) that displays teammates health. That way in a quick glance you can get all the information you need.

While automatic audio cues are cute, I personally think they are annoying in a comp match. As for getting inspiration from movies - for the art style yes, but I also think the guys at SD already do an amazing job. For gameplay - No.


(tokamak) #3

Keeping everything visual is restrictive and less intuitive though. And as for potential nuisance, it can just be another audio layer that you can adjust the sound on or mute entirely.

My point is that certain movies reveal things that games can miss out on. Having actual people act something out (or even have them actually fight in real combat footage) shows that more things happen during real shoot-outs than just the things that are going on in a typical shooter.

With this particular scene it just shows that the lack of (impulsive) communication between players sticks out like a sore thumb in games and makes them far less immersive than they should be. But maybe other footage shows different stuff video games could improve upon.

I din’t really start this thread for just sounds. I just am kind of hoping for people to bring other favourite scenes to the table and tell what games could do with it.

My interest is mainly in seeing the shooter genre develop further than it’s doing now. I still feel there’s a lot of blind spots in the genre.


(Rémy Cabresin) #4

I agree that, specially this scene from Heat in particular, movies can be much more emersive than most games are. However movies are run by a script and can be done over and over to provide the viewer with that experience. Games are ran without a script, as you are playing yourself at the very instant. Sound and such can do a lot but it will never feel as ‘perfect’ as some movies make it seem. Unless ofcourse you play the game with two teams of actors who play along a script. :stuck_out_tongue:


(stealth6) #5

[QUOTE=tokamak;459338]I din’t really start this thread for just sounds. I just am kind of hoping for people to bring other favourite scenes to the table and tell what games could do with it.

My interest is mainly in seeing the shooter genre develop further than it’s doing now. I still feel there’s a lot of blind spots in the genre.[/QUOTE]

I prefer KISS. I think the FPS genre is fine and hope they spend time perfectioning the small details. (For instance the sound of clicking on menu buttons or reloading a gun, sometimes it just sounds way better)
Rather than adding gimmicks.

To give an example Super Meat Boy is probably one of my favorite games and the concept is so simple, yet so entertaining. I was just telling a friend of mine that even though I’ve probably heard the same sound clips 1000 times they sound just as awesome as the first time I heard them.
Same goes for SC2 the sounds the zerg make when you select units etc is just so satisfying.

You said that there are other things you might be able to draw from movies, but apart from visuals and sound what’s left? I don’t think you should draw gameplay decisions from a movie.


(tokamak) #6

I don’t know. That’s why I made this thread. Hopefully less reactionary and more like-minded people see other things than I can.

I don’t think there’s a need to take every single idea as an affront to the competitive status quo.


(Violator) #7

I think this has some possibilities, but should be a server-side setting to enable (e.g. for comp matches). Not sure about making a sound if you see a teammate getting hit, what if you see 3 teammates getting hit at once? It could be info overload very quickly in a large-scale firefight - I would leave this sort of thing to comms or vsays, having said that the ‘Need backup’ vsay always goes ignored as no-one knows where the vsayer is currently, or has their own problems to deal with.


(Dormamu) #8

For a pub play it may work, i recall something like this in Brink, tho i prefer some VOIP rather than those situational noises. As long as i have o button to mute them, i don’t see a problem in implementing them.
Scripting a tense scene in a MP will give a one time experience (who will repeat until it becomes boring), allowing the players to create tense scenes will give you a multitude of moments on the same spot/map/obj from drama/dull /sad to epic win moments. So i say:

:smiley:


(DB Genome editor) #9

The first 2 CoD had automated battle chatter for your squad mates in single player and to me it added a lot to the ambiance of the game. And as far as I know none of that was scripted, it was reactions to events and actions on both sides. I even recall playing a mod once that integrated that into multi-player and the battlefield felt much more alive.

I see the point that for comp it would be a lot of white noise you would want to tune out, but for pubs it could make the game a lot more immersive. And a volume slider makes everyone happy :smiley:


(tokamak) #10

I’m not talking about choreography. It’s not up to a dev to say when and how a player needs to fight.

It however IS up to the dev to say that how frequently a conflict should occur, how long the average fight should last and how long it takes on average to kill a player. And note that amount of shots (not hits) required to kill a player is something different than the time it should take to kill a player.

That pace and rhythm in a fight IS malleable.

That’s why I think Heat’s shootout scene is a bit of an exception. It’s matched and therefore applicable to multiplayer. It’s not like Shoot’em Up (great movie btw) where tons of really contrived stuff happens.

These are great movies but highly unsuitable for anything game-related. Too choreographed to be of any use.



(DarkangelUK) #11

Just please, not this…



(tokamak) #12

That’s a part of the context-sensitivity. Players only yell “reloading” when they’re directly near a friendly.

Whether that’s an audible channel that opponents can hear is open for discussion.


(DB Genome editor) #13

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;459372]Just please, not this…


[/QUOTE]
In the first audio milestone video (http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/35309-MS16-Audio) they showed context-sensitive voiceovers where the volume and tone changed with the stress of the situation. If they implement that consistently across the board it should take care of your concern :wink:


(RectalTerror) #14

I think the reference is Left4Dead (even if there it’s just 4 players), as for context-aware discussions. If it’s automatic, random, not necessarily useful to the game, it can make the team alive. You could even imagine both teams shouting things to each other, like “we understand why you’re doing that, but think of the families you’re hurting”, I don’t know, something that gives more humanity as well as assuming an existing background story. Brink is doing it a little, only within the team, but I never really felt involved.

Of course the players are random, it can’t be telling personal things about players like in L4D, but I don’t know, while one player is shouting that he’s arming the C4, a player next to him could say “I’m covering you” but also something a bit less bland like “you know if we make it alive you owe me a beer” or “the nice thing about this tunnel is that those bloody airstrikes can’t reach us”…


(stealth6) #15

I thought of a way to make the audio kind of interesting:
Every player has a walkie-talkie that has 2 frequencies (team & global). When you do a team vsay your character talks into the walkie-talkie and it’s transmitted to your teammates. The kicker is that when you do a vsay players around you can hear you talking into your walkie-talkie. Which could give away you position. Or you could use it to bait enemies: “Need ammo!”
So the message is broadcast to all the players on the frequency so they get the message clearly (like normal vsays atm), but there is also a sound placed in the world so other players near the player talking can hear him.


(Bangtastic) #16

im not really a fan of leaning
//youtu.be/cyKoq48c170

//youtu.be/L_oL3U92pno

but it has its own gameplay and nowadays its new again, et lean is fine;


(DarkangelUK) #17

[QUOTE=stealth6;459437]I thought of a way to make the audio kind of interesting:
Every player has a walkie-talkie that has 2 frequencies (team & global). When you do a team vsay your character talks into the walkie-talkie and it’s transmitted to your teammates. The kicker is that when you do a vsay players around you can hear you talking into your walkie-talkie. Which could give away you position. Or you could use it to bait enemies: “Need ammo!”
So the message is broadcast to all the players on the frequency so they get the message clearly (like normal vsays atm), but there is also a sound placed in the world so other players near the player talking can hear him.[/QUOTE]

Halo has this for it’s VOIP, it’s AOR (area of relevance) chat. Even though only your team can hear you over VOIP, if someone is close to you then they can hear you speak as well.


(tokamak) #18

That’s nifty but a bit too gimmicky. It discourages people from actually using the VOIP for tactical purposes and encourages it to spew profanity at your opponents.

[QUOTE=Tast1c;459449]im not really a fan of leaning
//youtu.be/cyKoq48c170
[/QUOTE]

I think I need to check that game out.

Though if you don’t like the bendy running around gameplay then a simple movement penalty on the leaning is an easy solution.


(warbie) #19

I like the idea of players making a noise when they get hit - a yelp or a ‘I’m getting hit’! - or a ‘I’m getting …’ that trails off into a death rattle if they die mid sentence :slight_smile: It could become annoying/repetitive, though. Depends on how it’s handled. I love that Heat fight scene btw - wouldn’t want a fps that plays like it - too much standing still behind cover, but cracking scene.


(tokamak) #20

It could be more context sensitive:

  • A headshot does not result in any shout
  • A death outside the range of anyone hearing will only have a probability of an agonised yell. Some people take their death in stride, some do not.

The system needs a way of figuring out when players are occupied in combat and when not. Being hit while engaged in combat should result in different sounds than being hit while not being in combat (IE you’re being ambushed).

  • A first hit in the life of a player (IE first time after spawning) while being near friendlies will always trigger a voice of warning. Being hit for the first time indicates an initiation of combat and that’s highly valuable information. Being hit for the second or third time is less relevant.
  • People who heard this voice of warning will also be tagged as ‘engaged’ which will change their own voice responses when they’re the ones being hit or when they see others being hit. They may return the sound with their own affirmations of the warning “Roger that” “go go go”, “take cover” etc.

See where this is going? there are many more rules to be written but eventually you get highly intuitive and immersive player responses that will give very accurate information on the combat going on. It will boost teamplay and it will put more emotion and satisfaction in the game.