In game reputation system

(PSG_Mud) #1

I was thinking about it, there can be alot of problems with it. But, overall I think it would be a project to encourage teamwork.

Basically its difficult to rep like you would in a forum. It is also to inefficient and detracting from gameplay to take time out to rep others. So I thought, scripts could be written that would trigger rep points.

1.For example, a player dies and you revive that player, they rep you.
2.You and a teammate are firing and both damage an opponent that dies, you rep your teammate.
3.If a player is taking fire from an enemy, and you kill that enemy.
4.If an enemy player is dominating your team, and you stop him you get rep points.
5.The timer is about to expire and you get to plant a bomb at the last second, you get rep points.
etc

You could even add titles to each of the types of ways to get reputation. They could even be titles in game earned by gaining alot of that particular type of reputation.
When you complete a script there would be text that pops up like how points do normally. This would be separate from the normal point system.

1.Life Savior +10 rep points
2.Crossfire +2 rep points
3.Cover Fire +5 rep points
4.Snowball Stopper +100 points(+10 from each player on your 10 man team)
5.Game Over? +200 points(+200 from each player on your 10 man team)

You have to imagine these things happening while playing. It could be quite satisfying.

It could be possible to add combo rep points, like if you revive 2 players in a row you could get bonuses.

Now, here is the cool part imo. The reputation system wouldn’t be just blind points. You can actually see in your achievements page who gave you rep and for what. At the top would be the player whos given you the most reputation. Double click on that player will give a list of what kind of things that player repped you for. Overtime if you gather enough rep points with a friend you can gain access to party based achievements or maybe other teamwork oriented things. Or, you can just get achievements by just reputation from random people but it takes longer.

Because of the diversity in the way reputation points are acquired, there is a simple way to stop abusers. As you gain more reputation from a player, that reputation increasingly becomes more worthless to overall reputation achievements. This would be done via Elo system. Players whom you play with alot would generate much less reputation rather than someone who is playing their first game. This makes it more efficient to play in games with a variety of players, rather than to abuse to system. This is best way to combat stat abusers. It becomes more of an accomplishment to go out and help people rather than just abuse. However, it still would be desirable to gain teamwork achievements with friends and have linked achievements only you and that player can get together. Or, possibly long term clan achievements.

Why have a reputations system? Encourage teamwork, the sole purpose we play team games. Yet, it is so rare these days to see people encouraged to play with their team. That is why you see alot of snipers in these newer games, because they want to be away from the battle. Out of danger, because they don’t trust their team and are afraid to die and lose ground with their precious k/d ratio. Anyway just an idea. I know there was a thread about this in the ETQW forums where we talked about similar things. But, I don’t think the conversation we had there knew how to go about trying to get a rep system to work.

(SockDog) #2

Good luck. I tried to discuss something similar a few months back and did get a very positive response.

http://splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18668&highlight=reputation

My problem with linking it to actions is that you end up with the same loopholes and gaps as XP earning. The erosion of earning is a great idea though.

I proposed a more simplified and social based system at the end of each map. If you’re interested it’s in that link, I won’t derail your effort by saying more than that.

If there was a system I’d like there to be some human decision making in the process. Sometimes you may want to reward someone who contributed outside the ruleset. Now that I think of it, how about at the end of the match everyone votes for their MVP and L (least)VP. The results of those votes then act as a multiplier for the rep you earned in that match. That way some douche farming rep in the corner of a map but doing little in the game could end up having all that rep he farmed turned into nothing or worse a negative rep. The guy who helped perhaps gets all the rep he earn or maybe twice the amount.

Some obvious issues with that but for a rough idea I kinda like that.

(3Suns) #3

Mud, interesting post, and SackDog, thanks for the heads-up on your thread. Looks very interesting. Will read through it.

Actually, several of the games I play award points in-game for activities such as “avenging” “protecting” “healing” etc. Most recently, I have been playing a lot of the BF:BC2 demo (360). There are all sorts of team-player oriented stats and medals. They do a couple of things wrong, however. 1st, I don’t know how visible the Revive medals, for example, are to other players. So, while I get rewarded for the team action, I don’t get any form of direct public recognition for it. No rep. 2nd, front and center, they have Kills, Deaths, and K/D ratio for all to see, and as the most important stat on the page. Regardless of ANY other efforts for the developer to encourage teamwork, ALL that work is undermined by the presence/existence of those three stats. I cannot say enough how important I think it is to SD’s vision, that they stick to their guns with their decision to not provide those stats.

As for reputation specifically, I think the voting on MVP etc, is a very cool idea. Like RUDY, even I would get the odd nomination simply because I love the game so much, and play it with such enthusiasm :wink: I know my buddies would throw me a bone every so often.

OK, I am just brainstorming here: taking your ideas and running in a new direction here.

Everyone could have a rep page with info all generated from public-gamer feedback.

At the end of a game, gamers fill out a short poll with drop down menus of the players names beside each “Award” so that in just a couple of clicks, all awards could quickly be distributed. Any given player can be chosen for no more than, say, 3 of the x number of awards - and “nobody” could always be a choice, though, there should also be a stat for how many times a gamer chose “nobody”.

[ul]
[li]Florence Nightingale “Healer” Award [/li][li]Creasy"Avenger" Award[/li][li]“Got Your Back” Award (for protecting someone when they were vulnerable)[/li][li]“The Rambo 2” Green Beret Award (For not leaving anyone behind)[/li][li]“Playmaker” Award (for leading the team to victory)[/li][li] The “Betty Boop”/ “Bob Hope” Award - for bringing up the morale of the troops[/li][li]The “Saved Our Asses” Award* - for jumping into a game in progress and being a team player (to encourage people to join games that have already started but that suffered from quitters. [/li][li]etc. etc. (Don’t have time right now to write/think more on this)[/li][/ul]

and maybe 2 or 3 negative awards

[ul]
[li]The “Quitter” Award*[/li][li]The “I Am An Island” Award - for those who just cost the team because of their selfish gameplay.[/li][li]The “Griefer” Award[/li][/ul]

For the “*” Awards, the server generates the name menus from only those gamers eligible for that award for that game. So gamers who didn’t quit the match, do not have their name appear in “Quitter” menu. Similarly, gamers who were in the match the whole time, don’t have their name pop up in the “Saved Our Asses” Award menu.

EDIT: Some gamers won’t want to be bothered with the poll. Therefore, the poll page should actually be automatically generated with default names of gamers based on in-game performance as determined by the server. For the negative awards, those are always defaulted to “Nobody”, for the positive awards, if there is a tie for a certain award, then the computer generated choice defaults to “Nobody”. Gamers who don’t want to manually vote, can just click “Next” etc. and avoid the process with just one click. Those who want to participate more actively can select the names.

(Cankor) #4

Seems like the “script based” rep system is so similar to the XP system, and aimed at achieving the same purpose (team based play) as to be redundant? Why two systems trying to serve the same goal?

(SockDog) #5

I’m still a little torn between the lesser award system and a more complicated multiplier rep score system. They have pros and cons, which with technicalities aside are hard to predict the response of the average gamers.

Still I think being rewarded by your fellow gamers on the server (friend and foe) would hold a lot more value than some formula triggered number. Add some Peggle style whizz, bang, brain’splosions to the whole affair and the ADD crowd will be busting their balls trying to impress the team and being more sportsmanlike and less of a prick.

Well, that’s how I’d like to see it working anyway. :slight_smile:

(PSG_Mud) #6

Not really, if of course reputation is accumulated from players that is tracked and manageable with a Elo style. Someone with 1,000,000 points is good, they just can keep going and going, but that is an exp system. Someone with the nearly peaked 5,000 reputation points with an elo style system would be dead pressed to find.

Most XP systems have no value in teamwork because, it is static and never changing.

There could be other non automated ways to give out reputation too. Perhaps something like game rep, where you can only give rep out 2-3 times a game. Optional to do with a simple hotkey stroke over your allied target or while you’re dead. Also, it could be possible to neg people.

(aimology) #7

[QUOTE=PSG_Mud;213981]Not really, if of course reputation is accumulated from players that is tracked and manageable with a Elo style. Someone with 1,000,000 points is good, they just can keep going and going, but that is an exp system. Someone with the nearly peaked 5,000 reputation points with an elo style system would be dead pressed to find.

Most XP systems have no value in teamwork because, it is static and never changing.

There could be other non automated ways to give out reputation too. Perhaps something like game rep, where you can only give rep out 2-3 times a game. Optional to do with a simple hotkey stroke over your allied target or while you’re dead. Also, it could be possible to neg people.[/QUOTE]

This is a dumb idea by all means. This comes down too a ****ing favorism system. stupid idea.

(brbrbr) #8

sure

crowds suxx.
and their opinion doesn’t matter. especially projected this way.
while democracy does. diffrence ? brutal.

(tokamak) #9

I don’t like the idea either. You’re being a good sport out of your own motivations, not because it’s just another statistic you want to parade around with.

(SockDog) #10

That is a risk, although you can put things in place to discourage it. Point is the system would allow YOU to recognise a good player and perhaps even bad ones.

As an extreme compromise you could just make this an end of map thing and not even have a persistant stat. Would remove some of the other capabilities but still give some end of map honour and shame from your peers.

Says the guy who’s all for XP!

Seems there is a fear of having other players judge your contribution but a warm welcome for some algorithm to do the same.

(MILFandCookies) #11

Point is the system would allow YOU to recognise a good player and perhaps even bad ones.

Thats assuming that aimology needs a rep system to help him make that distinction.

Seems there is a fear of having other players judge your contribution but a warm welcome for some algorithm to do the same.

Im anti xp & rep system because I like to think the actions in game speak for themselves. To me a rep system, is just an approval seeking mechanism. If you need other people to tell you that you are good at the game, chances are, you aren’t.

(tokamak) #12

Your point?

(SockDog) #13

I sort of see it from the other end, maybe that is my problem in communicating this. I want to GIVE recognition not so much receive it. I want to have a way to go beyond a simple “gg” or “thanks”, to have a way of saying you played well and I recognise that beyond a score or XP number.

Maybe I’m being idealist here but I just think that would be a pretty good tool for players to have and make them recognise each other as people.

(SockDog) #14

That you have no issue with XP being a motivation carrot and measure for playing the game yet you expect behavior to be self moderated and of no statistical value. I find that hypocritical.

(Senyin) #15

I’m all for manually giving players some sort of rep/kudo’s at the end of a game
or otherwise.
But only positive ones as negatives are always abused.
I would like to place the emphasis on general attitude/behavior and less on
ingame accomplishments though.

Oh and as sockdog said: I want to GIVE recognition not so much receive it

(SockDog) #16

I’ll go for a positive only system as long as I get a private sh*tlist feature. :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #17

Yes, antisocial gameplay should be governed through specific game mechanics, not through some gamer jury.

It’s called pen and paper.

(PSG_Mud) #18

I was just putting the idea out there for in manual reputation, however, it was not my main point of automated reputation.

Here is how I look at if from an ETQW standpoint and another game.

In the game, I normally go Soldier or Field Ops and hardly play medic or engie, sometimes an infantry covert with the SMP/3rdeye spam. I feel medics are stronger in numbers, and I find myself assaulting an objective alone most of the time. I find it beneficial on defense to not play as a team but as a one man army and get 60-70 kills a game. If players were more team oriented minded things would change drastically. Incentive for teamwork in a way.

I’ve been beta testing BFBC2, fun game, but it will never be a serious game for various reasons. However, if you jump into this game and start playing on offense, you will notice nearly half or more the team is snipers standing around in one spot. They’re afraid of dieing, and losing their precious k/d ratio, they don’t give a shit about winning(the main point of games). I have played alot of BFBC2 and reached 500 skill level at one point, top 100 out of 200,000 soldiers before I stopped playing. And, I played only ONE fricking game that people actually used teammwork on both sides. Half or more the team was medics this time around, it was pretty hard to die. Damn near impossible to die. Even though we were getting slaughtered we still could hold our ground decently because of teamwork. Perhaps my frustration with the lack of teammwork in BFBC2 beta is just brushing off on me in this thread.

Quakers/ET players always play together better than any other casual FPS player. But, in a public environment there hasn’t been a game that really rewards teamwork efficiently enough. Its always who has the best super heroes on your team and you have the concept that your team supports you, you don’t support them.

(tokamak) #19

And you think a manual reputation system would solve that? Clearly the reward distribution is messed up and the K/D ratio bears too much emphasis in this game.

(PSG_Mud) #20

No, I didn’t even talk about manual reputation in my topic. I was talking about non automated reputation in an earlier post, but it was hardly the topic.

See, the thing is I was just adding to the discussion. You can’t just think of something done, as one way. Especially if it is innovating. There are many ways to do things to make things work. Anything is possible.

What if hypothetically, the reputation system was similar to how Youtube does their thumbs up/down with comments. At the end of the map you can thumbs up or down a player. I mean that right there, itself would probably work. Its just an idea man, something to expand upon.

My thread was talking about an alternate point system, one that expands purely from teamwork based type of actions. I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t mind rewarding someone for helping me or others on my team.