ideas from titanfall

[warbie]

(Exemple of a good use of the movements in the game : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pZviSoZ_WE but he uses a lot the iron sight, that slows its movements per moments)

Nice vid That’s exactly what I’m enjoying in Titanfall at the mo - running and jumping around, mid air fights, lots of twitching to different targets and speed. There’s plenty I’d like changed about the game - seriously, ironsights in a game with movement as fun as this?! - but all in all it’s a great change from the CoD and BF boreathons we’re being drip fed on!

[DarkangelUK]

[QUOTE=attack;493460]since i got so much hate by saying ,that tf isnt that great ,i have a question who is still playing it?
my complete clan has dropped it and all players i know from other clans too![/QUOTE]

Honestly after tonights games with you, TF keeps me playing because the maps were designed around the movement. You can tell they took the movement then created the maps with that being the focal point. I admit the game modes are bland, but the diversity of movement keeps me there, it’s a lot of freedom I’ve not felt in a while and I have room to think and adapt to a situation. In Xt I need to just grind a couple of routes that are predictable and the defence can get to those MUCH quicker than offence.

The more I play the more the map design is annoying me and it’s because of the defensive bias. Waterloo is a perfect example, the def spawn can instantly walk to the wall along one short street, offence spawn and need to walk up a road, through a tunnel, up a street, up stairs, through a room, unto a tunnel then reach the wall… I mean wtf. Defence needs pushed way back, the route to wall more diverse and intercept routes need created.

[rookie1]

Titanfall matchmaking tweaks should ease the frustration of a losing streak

What does it do? “Searching for teammates and opponents will now sometimes take more time to look for players that are a good skill level match,” explains the developer, “rather than purely prioritizing speed over quality. This will give us more time to build better teams and create closer games that are worth staying in for a longer period of time.”

The other major change is that the beta matchmaking code will split teams apart after games in order to balance the skill levels. “Rather than playing against the same opponents over and over, the game will periodically split the teams apart and search for new opponents for each team. This means if one team is dominating, we will update the skill for all of the players and then find each team a better suited match for the next round. Did you lose to a really great team? We’ll make them disappear and replace them with a new opposing team–and they will have no idea that you just got your butts kicked. This should end some of the frustration with playing for extended periods when you’re having an off night.”

good for <The X game > ?

[davidemo89]

(Exemple of a good use of the movements in the game : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pZviSoZ_WE but he uses a lot the iron sight, that slows its movements per moments)

Meh, momentum was good but it seems like a game that make it easy to do it. If you really want something cool and skilled check this

[Ashog]

The more I play the more the map design is annoying me and it’s because of the defensive bias. Waterloo is a perfect example, the def spawn can instantly walk to the wall along one short street, offence spawn and need to walk up a road, through a tunnel, up a street, up stairs, through a room, unto a tunnel then reach the wall… I mean wtf. Defence needs pushed way back, the route to wall more diverse and intercept routes need created.

… or increase discretely the certain spawntimes. I’d actually prefer the spawntimes tweaked. They are still ridiculously short (a-la TF) which breaks the objective play imo. Discrete tweaking of spawntimes was promised since alpha, but it’s not been used properly till now… I don’t know what they are waiting for, perhaps higher completeness of maps? Not sure if this is a good approach, because spawntimes define playability per objective and playability is what drives the detailed map design around an objective.

[DarkangelUK]

Still doesn’t change the fact that the defence are ridiculously close to the objective, I’m sure SD and players themselves would rather be in-game with a longer travel time than sitting waiting on the spawn for a bit longer.

[Ashog]

Well, I don’t mind speccing when dead instead of pointless running, but the gibbed state team cam seems to be disabled at the moment, I think (revamping?).

[DarkangelUK]

It’s not pointless running ¬_¬

[Ashog]

Well, it is

Running all the way down the street from spawn to a frontline separated by a wall (no enemy encounters, well, at least in this case) - seems pointless to me, like if we had to run on ETQW Refinery 1st stage or say, Quarry last stage all the way from spawns each time, were there no transport vehicles available. The thing is, DB doesn’t have any and even tho the maps are smaller, the argument stands, imho.

[Erkin31]

[QUOTE=davidemo89;493552]Meh, momentum was good but it seems like a game that make it easy to do it. If you really want something cool and skilled check this

I’m a big fan of tribes since tribes 2

[DarkangelUK]

[QUOTE=Ashog;493564]Well, it is

Running all the way down the street from spawn to a frontline separated by a wall (no enemy encounters, well, at least in this case) - seems pointless to me, like if we had to run on ETQW Refinery 1st stage or say, Quarry last stage all the way from spawns each time, were there no transport vehicles available. The thing is, DB doesn’t have any and even tho the maps are smaller, the argument stands, imho.[/QUOTE]

Well it’s not, as I said, the spawns need pushed back and intercept/flanking routes added. Travel time needs increased, sitting dead waiting for spawn is pointless… making people do nothing for longer as opposed to something for the sake of balance is bad game design. Spawn times need increased in general anyway, but shouldn’t be due to poor spawn placement which is clearly the problem. Do you honestly think the defence spawn placement on Waterloo is good where it is?

[Chris2]

[QUOTE=Ashog;493564]Well, it is

Running all the way down the street from spawn to a frontline separated by a wall (no enemy encounters, well, at least in this case) - seems pointless to me, like if we had to run on ETQW Refinery 1st stage or say, Quarry last stage all the way from spawns each time, were there no transport vehicles available. The thing is, DB doesn’t have any and even tho the maps are smaller, the argument stands, imho.[/QUOTE]

You don’t necessarily have to just move the spawn further down that road, you could open up another part of the map and put the spawn there and intertwine it with the current layout like they’ve done with WC changes on 1st stage, albeit without a spawn location change. Also comparing the situation to ET:QW maps where transport vehicles are used with the maps designed around their used isn’t exactly a fair comparison. A fairer comparison would be the infantry maps, take Volcano 1st stage, imagine if GDF spawned in the room where the command post is, would be silly but instead they spawn further back behind those huts to increase the distance to the objective, the strogg on attack have more of an opportunity to intercept them before they reach the objective as a result.

Well it’s not, as I said, the spawns need pushed back and intercept/flanking routes added. Travel time needs increased, sitting dead waiting for spawn is pointless… making people do nothing for longer as opposed to something for the sake of balance is bad game design. Spawn times need increased in general anyway, but shouldn’t be due to poor spawn placement which is clearly the problem. Do you honestly think the defence spawn placement on Waterloo is good where it is?

Exactly, this is what is key when you’re deciding on where the spawn is, making sure there are those flanking and intercept routes that fit nicely with the rest of the map. I think Waterloo almost gets away with it as if you do plant it’s ridiculously easy to cover the plant but is a pain to plant in first place unless the defence have pushed out. I remember Brink maps were pretty bad in regards to spawn locations too. Also the spawn time should be proportional to the time it takes to reach the objective, Kendle came up with some calculations that work reasonably well, I’ve used them on a lot of my own maps but you need a good layout to suit.

[Kl3ppy]

Keep in mind, Ashog is not in form and running causes heavy breathing for him

[Ashog]

A fairer comparison would be the infantry maps, take Volcano 1st stage, imagine if GDF spawned in the room where the command post is, would be silly but instead they spawn further back behind those huts to increase the distance to the objective, the strogg on attack have more of an opportunity to intercept them before they reach the objective as a result.

You are forgetting that DB has a cool feature - being able to set diverse spawntimes for each objective and each team, that has to be used to full potential.

Also the spawn time should be proportional to the time it takes to reach the objective, Kendle came up with some calculations that work reasonably well, I’ve used them on a lot of my own maps but you need a good layout to suit.

You surely mean reverse-proportional or?

Regardless of intercept routes and opening neighbouring areas which is a separate story, I still think that it doesn’t matter which tool you use - longer path to frontline and short spawns or short path and long spawns. I prefer the latter as it removes the need for pointless running on foot - I’d rather watch when I’m dead what me teammates are doing from their eyes (teamcam) or from deathghost position (static deathcam with rotation). Is more useful for awareness, in fact.

[Chris2]

You are forgetting that DB has a cool feature - being able to set diverse spawntimes for each objective and each team, that has to be used to full potential.

You could do that already in ET:QW and no one is suggesting spawn times are perfect either.

gdfTeam.SetRespawnWait( 20 );
stroggTeam.SetRespawnWait( 20 );

You can change these values for each stage of the map to whatever you like.

Regardless of intercept routes and opening neighbouring areas which is a separate story,

No it’s not, spawn location, respawn time and map layout are all related design considerations that cannot be looked at in isolation.

I still think that it doesn’t matter which tool you use - longer path to frontline and short spawns or short path and long spawns. I prefer the latter as it removes the need for pointless running on foot - I’d rather watch when I’m dead what me teammates are doing from their eyes (teamcam) or from deathghost position (static deathcam with rotation). Is more useful for awareness, in fact.

They both should be used but be balanced. I don’t get why you see it as pointless running though? If there is little distance from the spawn to the objective there is little scope to prevent that team reaching the objective and you just end up with a big meat grind and camp fest. You might as well just make a box with an objective in middle then have both teams spawn next to it, cut out the running altogether…

Simply increasing respawn time without other adjustments in the case of Waterloo 1st stage just means you’ll end up spawning, running 5m potentially getting killed then waiting 25s to try again. No one is suggesting you put the spawn miles away, only that it is not on the doorstep of the objective, this means pushing it further away increasing the time for defence to reach the objective from 3s to something more reasonable whilst also adjusting spawn times so you don’t get a constant stream of defenders

[Protekt1]

[QUOTE=attack;493460]since i got so much hate by saying ,that tf isnt that great ,i have a question who is still playing it?
my complete clan has dropped it and all players i know from other clans too![/QUOTE]

That probably has to do with the fact that it only has pubs atm. They haven’t even added private matches… I don’t know why any clan would play this game over a long period atm.

[Ashog]

[QUOTE=.Chris.;493610]You could do that already in ET:QW and no one is suggesting spawn times are perfect either.

gdfTeam.SetRespawnWait( 20 );
stroggTeam.SetRespawnWait( 20 );

You can change these values for each stage of the map to whatever you like.[/quote]

Strange, I was confident SD advertised this as a new feature… Was this thing available only for ETQWPro or for Vanilla too? Perhaps I misinterpreted Anti back then when he was trying to say not that it was a new stuff, but that they simply hadn’t started using it at all…

No it’s not, spawn location, respawn time and map layout are all related design considerations that cannot be looked at in isolation.

Can’t argue with the mapper, but of course spawn location and spawn time are related - that’s why I was writing in the first place. However the spawn surroundings are imho not necessarily dependant on spawn location and time. I was always thinkin g that one first defines roughly the travel times and spawntimes to balance them out, then adds various openings and additional travel/intercept routes to the existing spawns. In the end, isn’t it how they have been iterating the current maps lately in the first place? That is though probably not needed if you have a solid/complete well-thought map plan on paper before starting the mapping itself. IIRC you used both methods for different maps - with a plan and w/o a plan? Correct me if I’m wrong.

They both should be used but be balanced. I don’t get why you see it as pointless running though? If there is little distance from the spawn to the objective there is little scope to prevent that team reaching the objective and you just end up with a big meat grind and camp fest. You might as well just make a box with an objective in middle then have both teams spawn next to it, cut out the running altogether…

Agreed, having it balanced somewhere in the golden middle is best, yeah, extremes like on Waterloo def and attack are probably not the best way. However the meatgdrinder isn’t always unfun, often it creates extra excitement when a lot of action in one choke point. And if this happens near objective - even better so, I thought they were intending to move action closer to objectives, didn’t they? This also is better than having the same meatgrinder near the def spawn - call it intercepting or just spawncamping… But yeah, it’s a hard thing to pinpoint exactly, I guess balance is the only answer.

Simply increasing respawn time without other adjustments in the case of Waterloo 1st stage just means you’ll end up spawning, running 5m potentially getting killed then waiting 25s to try again. No one is suggesting you put the spawn miles away, only that it is not on the doorstep of the objective, this means pushing it further away increasing the time for defence to reach the objective from 3s to something more reasonable whilst also adjusting spawn times so you don’t get a constant stream of defenders

Let’s say, perhaps I was thiking too much only about this concrete objective and generalization to other objectives wasn’t a good idea on my side. This spawn is a special case because in reality it doesn’t matter how far the def spawns regarding interception because there is a wall that attackers can’t or don’t want to get around - def would be running to frontline anyways undisturbed. Plus I don’t see how spending 25 seconds on running is much better than 25 seconds spent on being dead watching mates - it just gives an illusion of action while in reality is just silly running.

[shaftz0r]

[QUOTE=davidemo89;493552]Meh, momentum was good but it seems like a game that make it easy to do it. If you really want something cool and skilled check this

lolwut? tribes is SUPER easy to move extremely fast across huge spaces. in TF you have to continuously link jumps, and its a LOT more difficult to maintain that speed over a significant period of time. yes linking 1-2 together isnt altogether difficult, but more than that you have to know the map lines, and not slow down at all to hit certain spots.

That probably has to do with the fact that it only has pubs atm. They haven’t even added private matches… I don’t know why any clan would play this game over a long period atm.

^ this. without a server browser, locked servers ectectect this isnt a comp game. i guarantee once they add new game modes, and the first dlc, most of that will change.

as far as the conversation about spawntimes ect, these things are mildly pointless in the current stage of development. they’re currently working on a movement system, which will drastically change the map design and flow. once that happens, one can only hope that spawn points will be added as will spawn time tweaks

[Erkin31]

We should also talk about the bad ideas from titanfall that Dirty bomb should avoid :

• Very low tickrate (30…)
• Only matchmaking games.
• 90 secondes of timer before each game. (and games are really short)
• Unbalanced mode (Titan in CTF…)
• Unbalanced weapons (Weapons with a lot of spread are useless and not fun in this kind of arcade game).

[Mustang]

- Very low tickrate (30…)

IIRC the current tickrate is 60.

- Only matchmaking games.

Won’t be an issue, we’ll always have a server browser.

- 90 secondes of timer before each game. (and games are really short)

ATM there is a bug or incorrect setting in the config that makes for long waits, it’s actually higher than intended even now, and can OFC be adjusted if needed.

- Unbalanced mode (Titan in CTF…)

Don’t really know what you mean with this one, how does this apply to us?

- Unbalanced weapons (Weapons with a lot of spread are useless and not fun in this kind of arcade game).

It’s by design that not all weapons are the same, some characters are meant to have a more utility role than others, but I also agree that no-one should be downright useless, but as long as they’re useful in a different way then it’s fine, there are after all many characters to choose from, so pick one (or three) you like.