Just watched this WTF and there are a couple of interesting things in it.
Firstly there is the ability to boost xp generation if you remain in the same vicinity as your team members. This brings me back to the idea of offering passive boosts to team mates if you stick together.
Secondly attack dogs!! Come on, the Assault class needs a Dobie!
The reward from playing together is winning the map. I doubt you can get much better teamplay by giving more XP for that.
For the record, I hate the XP mechanic and all the baggage it brings with it. I also don’t think it is a great reward for not being a douche bag player. However, that said, I did mention in my OP that while XP gain is the reward in the game mentioned I have previously mentioned a mechanic similar whereby the reward would be temporary passive buffs to those who group together. eg. you and a medic stick together, you gain a 5% health boost, or 10% faster health regen. Medic dies, you lose the boost.
It wouldn’t be significant but it would lay out a message to players that simply being around each other is a smarter move than running off on your own. Hopefully, given time, these players then learn the other, team related, benefits that playing as one team can bring.
I don’t think passive area buffs are good in any situation. It makes the meta too complicated, and just arbitrarily sticking close to your team mate, doesn’t equate to working with your team mate.
This. It doesn’t help with the other problems facing gameplay, either. Teamplay should happen organically by fixing other systems.
I don’t like the passive buffs either to be honest. It’s incredibly artifical and not really all that rewarding. It does have the side effect of making aoe damage super powerful if everyone is going to cuddle up 
That aside though, once DirtyBomb is a bit further along developement SD definitly should invite Totalbiscuit for a a few rounds. His channel nowadays has gotten really big and can give this game some good exposure. Especially since he is fond of W:ET and even quite liked Brink.
I really like the idea of passive auras, best way to get people to team up imo.
Neither does earning XP but that system is held up as the educational tool of the century. 
All I’m saying is that players in proximity to each other have a much greater chance of working together (and seeing the benefits of doing so) than those who don’t. Reinforcing that behaviour with something that benefits ALL involved helps give an immediate feedback on this.
Buffs also don’t need to be over powered or directly related to being able to kill the other team. You could for example shave 5 seconds off the health regen trigger if you have a medic near you. This wouldn’t benefit you during a fight but would make you better off afterwards.
To be clear I don’t want any players touching or otherwise interacting for this to happen, it just happens because you’re grouped with your team mates. Move away from them and you lose that ability.
What other problems?
What other systems need fixing to encourage and reinforce better teamplay?
[QUOTE=Seiniyta;426364]I don’t like the passive buffs either to be honest. It’s incredibly artifical and not really all that rewarding. It does have the side effect of making aoe damage super powerful if everyone is going to cuddle up
That aside though, once DirtyBomb is a bit further along developement SD definitly should invite Totalbiscuit for a a few rounds. His channel nowadays has gotten really big and can give this game some good exposure. Especially since he is fond of W:ET and even quite liked Brink.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t say it was artificial. There are benefits from playing as a team even if they aren’t immediately obvious. Having a medic next to you means you’re more likely to be revived or fed medpacks for example. All this would do is make that connection obvious by giving some tangible reward, the rest, as acutepuppy says, comes organically.
AOE is easily countered but making the area large enough that you don’t need to huddle (I’d agree that doing that would be terrible). I’d imagine something relatively large so that players really don’t need to think about it, edges can be fuzzy like in the video.
+1 for Totalbiscuit. I think once this gets to closed beta and most of the stuff is in, having these people come in and get involved is going to be important.
<hugz> My only friend.
[QUOTE=Seiniyta;426364]I don’t like the passive buffs either to be honest. It’s incredibly artifical and not really all that rewarding. It does have the side effect of making aoe damage super powerful if everyone is going to cuddle up
That aside though, once DirtyBomb is a bit further along developement SD definitly should invite Totalbiscuit for a a few rounds. His channel nowadays has gotten really big and can give this game some good exposure. Especially since he is fond of W:ET and even quite liked Brink.
//youtu.be/B9zDpaQPoEI
[/QUOTE]
1.18 in this movie: Day 4: Dirty Bomb :DD
[QUOTE=SockDog;426388]What other problems?
What other systems need fixing to encourage and reinforce better teamplay?[/QUOTE]
Roles are only defined by necessity and seriously lack depth in feature. It doesn’t matter how much you microbalance the gunplay, most people need a more tangible reason to be a soldier. A recharging conc-grenade is not it. Neither is simply having a slightly heavier gun. New players aren’t even going to stick around long enough to learn the intricacies of the suggested balance changes if there isn’t something interesting going on to make you feel like a soldier. (personally, I think soldiers having the C4 is a start). This goes for all classes, really. Field Ops should be about area CONTROL, not just about throwing out airstrikes and ammo.
The maps are either too complex, or classes need more abilities and assets to control or deny area, with more ways to obtain info on player assets and positions. The lethality in DB is really low compared to military shooters, but with the high rate of fire new players will be constantly shot up from so many angles and places it will feel exactly like Call of Duty to players that really miss W:ET and ET:QW. I never once felt lost in the previous games, I honestly feel kinda bummed when I’m playing DB sometimes. I’m just getting torn apart from every angle and window, and my only goal is to survive and clump together around the objective. I don’t know where people are coming from, simply because by the time they are in shooting range, they could have come from wayyy too many locations.
The HUD and map system need to display more information, with less visual clutter. This will help reduce the unnecessary part of the learning curve and engage new users, and provide advanced players with the opportunity to make exciting plays.
The number based vsay system archaic. It’s efficient when learned, but it could so easily be an option for old players. By no way should it be default. Communication should come in many ways, such as: vsay, context commands, voip and text. Having more communication options reduces the burden on any individual one.
That’s a start.
About to go off to bed but let me zip through this.
Agreed. However I have a big suspicion that there is more to come for the classes including specific, selectable abilities and such. I think we’re playing as we are right now so that the focus is just on the shooting and movement. Which does make sense.
The maps are either too complex, or classes need more abilities and assets to control or deny area, with more ways to obtain info on player assets and positions. The lethality in DB is really low compared to military shooters, but with the high rate of fire new players will be constantly shot up from so many angles and places it will feel exactly like Call of Duty to players that really miss W:ET and ET:QW. I never once felt lost in the previous games, I honestly feel kinda bummed when I’m playing DB sometimes. I’m just getting torn apart from every angle and window, and my only goal is to survive and clump together around the objective. I don’t know where people are coming from, simply because by the time they are in shooting range, they could have come from wayyy too many locations.
It’s certainly a barrier for new players that they need to address but you still feel lost even after 5-6 plays? There is several schools of thought on the blunderbuss of routes and windows around the maps. I personally like it, give players the freedom to play a whole map rather than fight on choke X before falling back to Choke Y.
The HUD and map system need to display more information, with less visual clutter. This will help reduce the unnecessary part of the learning curve and engage new users, and provide advanced players with the opportunity to make exciting plays.
Yup. We’ve had a couple of discussions about this before. Went from full AR type GPS arrow overlays for players to learn maps all the way to minimal custom huds.
The number based vsay system archaic. It’s efficient when learned, but it could so easily be an option for old players. By no way should it be default. Communication should come in many ways, such as: vsay, context commands, voip and text. Having more communication options reduces the burden on any individual one.
That’s a start.
I believe there will also be an ETQW style mouse sensitive system for vsays alongside the numerical/alphabetical one. And VoIP of course.
I guess my point here is that while the feedback is valid and worth exploring, we are probably doing so in ignorance of SD’s actual plans. This is quite awkward because if we’re being given a chance to have input into the game and how things work, being kept in the dark until something is done represents a situation where we’re fighting an uphill battle against investments SD has already made.
So that said. I do wonder if SD could put up some design docs for things that are planned but which they’d like feedback on. Maybe we can brainstorm a little and help out there too?
I’m not saying your idea is bad. I actually like passive buffs, I just don’t think they are the “next move” to make.
Yes, the maps so far lack memorable locations and feel confined and confusing. Game elements and UI will go far to help. I am purely looking at how my friends that are interested in dirty bomb, but aren’t long time shooter players, will see the game.
I’m firmly in the other camp and really miss the sense of defending and attacking as a team. More than anything, this is what first struck me as great when RTCW came out. Holding or trying to push through choke points and working together and adapting when things went tits up. There’s rare moments of this DB, but on the whole it’s a bit of a free for all with objectives thrown in. Movement and shooting have improved considerably in recent patches, and I hope these continue to be refined, but the big issue for me now is the lack of synergy between classes and the tdm style maps that have no clear front line.
Group pushing and holding the line just doesn’t happen. It severely limits the meta game, and the classes feel like minor variants.
If this was an RPG, all the characters would be the same race. That just won’t do.