Idea's for Next Patch (Mostly Balence But a Few Others)

[prophett]

The soul was all in the frustration of no one wanting to have to play engineer every round to do objs lol? That’s always been near the bottom of my list of things that give the game appeal.

While it may of been lacking in pubs it was a fundamental part of competitive play it and ET.

[spookify]

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Let’s try this again haha! Next Patch I think so
Will it include any of the idea’s in this Post… I am guessing not but I am really looking forward to it and also some play time!

[warbie]

I’m not referring to competitive team play… remember that this is about the pub experience first.

Wasn’t a prob in RTCW. A little more of one in ET due to the xp farming that did nothing but deter people from swapping classes, but still not that much of an issue as being an engie was exciting stuff - the fighting was just as dynamic and twitchy as any other class coupled with the nail biting sitting duckness of having to look over your shoulder while planting/repairing/building.

[INF3RN0]

While it may of been lacking in pubs it was a fundamental part of competitive play it and ET.

Yea, however obj classes will still be used in competitive play anyway. Just because any class can do the obj doesn’t mean there will never be a reason to use the one that does it the fastest. If a team can manage to complete an obj without that class at the cost of a much slower speed, then is that ruining anything? I don’t think it is. The usefulness of it compliments the pub, but isn’t a necessary measure for comp for obvious reasons.

[Raviolay]

Yea, however obj classes will still be used in competitive play anyway. Just because any class can do the obj doesn’t mean there will never be a reason to use the one that does it the fastest. If a team can manage to complete an obj without that class at the cost of a much slower speed, then is that ruining anything? I don’t think it is. The usefulness of it compliments the pub, but isn’t a necessary measure for comp for obvious reasons.

Hopefully a “classic” (with optional mutators) mode emerges rendering this discussion moot, the the player base can then gravitate to whatever becomes the standard. As opposed to trying to ham fist an all encompassing gamemode, and arguing for or against it’s merits.

[Glottis-3D]

I’m not referring to competitive team play… remember that this is about the pub experience first.

i as well meant pub games. i always had an obj-guy because i was the obj guy. and i remember that there were ppl who encouraged to kick ppl who made objects - because they wanted to frag. i think obj-oriented games are not for entirely everyone. if some rambo doesnt want to do objects, he wont even if his char is able.

[Humate]

With classless it lessens the importance of a powerhouse medic, because you always have multiple opportunities per push to complete the objective. Therefore you can nerf the absolute crap out of him, and know you wont have to worry about stacked medic compositions. Ofcourse all of that is pretty obvious, but the ironic part of all that is because medics are no longer the backbone of any team, teams can afford to play them rambo.

For instance your engie dies, you dont revive, but you call out your fops to defuse while you fight everyone else off. And you can go down the entire list of players in your team, until you the medic are left to defuse. Whereas in the past, those multiple opportunities per push were predicated on whether you revived. If youre a rambo medic, you’re laughing. The game has done all the hard work for you, and now you can frag without feeling bad. /tongue-in-cheek

Yes I’m taking the piss, but I would not be surprised if this is how pub games are played in future.
To be fair though, there are positives associated with a classless approach that significantly improves XT.

[Glottis-3D]

with class objects - this is kind of obvious and axiomatic - games were were intense to maximum.
i want this intensity. is it possible to achieve it with classless objects? i dont know (stationary i mean, not carryable ones). personally - i realy doubt this. and half a year of extraction proves me right tbh.
if i dont get this level of intensity there will be no point in playing. simple as that.

[tokamak]

I’m not referring to competitive team play… remember that this is about the pub experience first.

I was more often frustrated with half the team wanting to be the hero to save the day. Especially with hacking objectives. An entire team of covert ops is a very bad idea.

[Glottis-3D]

Pub is a pub. Even in brainless Clanarena mode in quake there are moments of frustration.
The balance of the game has little to do with all kinds of sillyness we can see in pubgames. I want a balanced game, and i am not worried about anything else but balance.

[RasteRayzeR]

[QUOTE=krokodealer;488968]with class objects - this is kind of obvious and axiomatic - games were were intense to maximum.
i want this intensity. is it possible to achieve it with classless objects? i dont know (stationary i mean, not carryable ones). personally - i realy doubt this. and half a year of extraction proves me right tbh.
if i dont get this level of intensity there will be no point in playing. simple as that.[/QUOTE]

First, you should try other shooters than XT for a while, and then retry XT. I did that and I was amazed how hard it is to kill in XT and how the action is constant compared to all these other games.

Second, I don’t see why having anyone able to go play the objectives will weaken the action. What makes the intensity of a situation are the pace of the game, the team play, and the amount of stress generated by doing the objective. I don’t see how the classless objectives alter any of these. It’s even better imo, because if you’re repairing slower, you need even more your team and it creates even more suspense because you know the probability that an enemy might attack you is increasing with time.

For me the classless objectives are raising the level of intensity, but what changed a lot the intensity is the removal of grenades. This has dumbed down quite a bit the action.

EDIT : in loadout, you can trade grenades for shields, turrets, double jump boots, etc. This is something interesting and each merc in XT could use an extra generic ability.

[Glottis-3D]

First, you should try other shooters than XT for a while, and then retry XT. I did that and I was amazed how hard it is to kill in XT and how the action is constant compared to all these other games.

depends on skill, imo.

If compare to BF or COD pub - then ofc i pwn to the left and pwn to the right
If i compare Xt to, say eu TDM quakelive scene - then not so much of a difference, i’d even say it is more difficult to pwn in quake (pickup games).

In Xt there is intensity - but it mostly comes from expirience of majority of players. For example In drafts and Evaczone cups. The skill of a team nullifies drawbacks of the game. The exitment comes from breaking chokepoints, when you did do some great teamplay stuff. But that doesnt take away boredom of, say, hack object (from old waterloo) that has to be hacked for how many minutes by medics or soldiers? i just imagine how much more fun would it be with proper hack time by engie (covert).

[potty200]

After a while away from extraction I returned to play the first few maps in a LONG time yesterday. One thing I have noticed is the god damn awful spread and falloff damage of ALL guns/classes. My aim was not being rewarded for actually aiming at the opposition. I feel the game is lacking because of this right now!

For now, I cannot see myself playing extraction in the long run if the spread/fall off damage is not addressed. Many people have been speaking about it before but all we have had in return is facts about the spread being a lot lower than ETQW and ET. I honestly cannot see this at all. If feels like I am hitting around 35% acc compared to 40-45% in ET and thats against competitive players. Would like to know what SDs view on spread is right now because so far it seems you guys are more or less happy with it. Is it going to be reviewed or are we stuck with these sort of values?

[Humate]

I was more often frustrated with half the team wanting to be the hero to save the day. Especially with hacking objectives. An entire team of covert ops is a very bad idea.

I was more frustrated with the medics that only revived and never used their weapon.
And then they would go: “Yesssss! Best Medic” at the end of the map.

[Glottis-3D]

[QUOTE=potty200;488979]After a while away from extraction I returned to play the first few maps in a LONG time yesterday. One thing I have noticed is the god damn awful spread and falloff damage of ALL guns/classes. My aim was not being rewarded for actually aiming at the opposition. I feel the game is lacking because of this right now!

For now, I cannot see myself playing extraction in the long run if the spread/fall off damage is not addressed. Many people have been speaking about it before but all we have had in return is facts about the spread being a lot lower than ETQW and ET. I honestly cannot see this at all. If feels like I am hitting around 35% acc compared to 40-45% in ET and thats against competitive players. Would like to know what SDs view on spread is right now because so far it seems you guys are more or less happy with it. Is it going to be reviewed or are we stuck with these sort of values?[/QUOTE]

+1

…awaiting for usual reply from Inferno =)

[tokamak]

[QUOTE=Humate;488982]I was more frustrated with the medics that only revived and never used their weapon.
And then they would go: “Yesssss! Best Medic” at the end of the map.[/QUOTE]

I think you hallucinated those.

[RasteRayzeR]

I think you hallucinated those.

I’ve seen some. This is a bit of an extreme example. The medics are there to heal and revive, it’s their role and unique ability. However they are supposed to be able to provide covering fire and to secure an area to do their reviving job. But they should not be able to own a team or heavy attack mercs by ramboing …

[spookify]

Looks like some of my ideas were taken into consideration.

[rapid_shot]

[QUOTE=Smooth;488342]If an equally skilled solo Fragger comes up against an equally skilled solo Sawbonez, then it’s intended that Fragger wins that fight the vast majority of the time.

Mercs aren’t balanced on head-to-head combat with each other, they’re balanced on what they bring to the team and how they help the team win.[/QUOTE]

Neat concept, but this only balances the game if both teams have the same mercs. You’re pretty much saying that a team of Sawbonez vs Fraggers, the Fraggers should win if they are equally matched in skill. This results in what we’ve seen already with OP classes being docked until no one plays them (e.g. Fragger, Sawbonez, Stoker, now Fragger again). And this will continue to happen as long as there is a statistically favorable class in a firefight. Your assumption that players will choose other Mercs (e.g. Proxy) because they help the team more with objectives is faulty especially with class agnostic objectives. It’s been said time and time again, but look at W:ET and how it was balanced (for the most part). Every class held their own against the other in a firefight minus some conditional variables swaying in favor for one or the other. But giving one class a clear and intentional advantage just can’t be the right move. Seeing that it is indeed intentional, this very well may be my last 2 cents given to this game.

[spookify]

Neat concept, but this only balances the game if both teams have the same mercs. You’re pretty much saying that a team of Sawbonez vs Fraggers, the Fraggers should win if they are equally matched in skill. This results in what we’ve seen already with OP classes being docked until no one plays them (e.g. Fragger, Sawbonez, Stoker, now Fragger again). And this will continue to happen as long as there is a statistically favorable class in a firefight. Your assumption that players will choose other Mercs (e.g. Proxy) because they help the team more with objectives is faulty especially with class agnostic objectives. It’s been said time and time again, but look at W:ET and how it was balanced (for the most part). Every class held their own against the other in a firefight minus some conditional variables swaying in favor for one or the other. But giving one class a clear and intentional advantage just can’t be the right move. Seeing that it is indeed intentional, this very well may be my last 2 cents given to this game.

True Dhat!

Its an easy fix on some classes if some recoil and spread is reduced the better shots will crush the solider with better aim. Just like Phoenix did before he was nerfed.

I think SD is aware that something is a foot and like it was said they are talking about “spread”.

I do like that fact that it looks like they be more open to some of our ideas then they have been in the past. This maybe be for a few reason but I have been trying to better explain the reasoning behind my changes more then just saying REDUCE SPREAD hahahha. There was also a time when I was so mad I vented on these forums haha but I want to see this game succeed So I feed the more detailed feedback I give especially about the feel and gun play (Which I consider my self good at) the better the game will be for everyone.