I would like to experience mor "sandbox" feeling!

(onYn) #1

I know this has been stated dozens of times already about the maps and how we want more ways to create our own strategies and apply them. But I actually wanted to talk about this on a more fundamental level. And since I am making this all up, I would like to know your guys opinion on it, maybe there is some science that agrees on that or denies it?

I think that the ONLY thing that makes you play a game for a long time and actually really like it, is actually some kind of a “sandbox” factor in it. I don´t know if the therm sandbox is right, but what I mean by that, is that you have a seemingly endless variety of stuff you can do and by that you are able to develop your own unique playstyle. This variety however isn´t achieved by multiple possibilities on ONE level, but by having those multiple possibilities on multiple levels that apply across all the levels to then form a whole universe of things you can do in a certain game.

So why am I actually making an own thread about this? I am making this because I think that outside all the topics that we have discussed right there, and that are currently in progress or not, there are way more stuff that could actually give DB this kind of “sandbox” feeling.

For example right now in DB I see only the mercs as a real variety. Because of that the game, even tho great in potential, looses most of it´s fun after playing it for couple of hours. And I know that the following example will just be an argument for game mechanics that were removed some time ago, but I want to remember that I see them just as an example and think that there are many other ways to give us a better experience.

So back in the good old ET:QW days, we had a member on our team that had a terrible PC - on close combat he had bellow 30 FPS. On larger distance his FPS increased to a level where he could play quiet nicely. The situation was still bad, but because he was better then most of the other players that could have replaced him I decided to just work around the issue.
And it worked out nicely. We found on most of the maps positions where he could stay way back but still remain usefull setting up a deadly crossfire quiet often. Usually he was our last man at the objective - quiet often securing the objective by taking out the objective guy and gibing him. And at the same time he often did the objective class for us since he couldn’t´t fight properly in close combat anyways. After some time we didn´t experience him being mostly able to fight over larger distances as a handy cap but as a huge benefit to our team play.

This is just an example for how you can work around individual weaknesses if the game allows you to do so, providing enough variety. Sadly I don´t see this being anywhere close to being the case in DB. And that is sad, because if you would implement the mercs into the objective classes we had back then, it would have been pretty much an additional “free” layer of variety that we player could have experienced. Sadly that´s not the case and the developers decided to remove some, if not most of those mechanics that actually allowed everyone to play in his own individual style that could then again been put into a team that has unique teamplay like no other. But that´s ok as long as we get some other things INSTEAD. And I hope that we get them in which ether way the devs see suited…

(Glottis-3D) #2

nice post there. we had also a fps-crippled player, and we also had a possibility to make him very useful.

DB is too small and tiny. 90% of fights is close and mid-close range. they are very intence.
where are the long range fights?
where are the routes and places, where you can feel safer and regroup there, in exchange for being far away from OBJ and having to run for it longer distances?

Remember Salvage 2bd obj?
Attackers could go central routes for close range fights. But they usually took another route - more distant on the hill. but they could thus bend and curve the frontline so that to make a crossfire, and get defenders into disadvantage. (and this part also had a very safe and long route in the big mountain slope)

(ToonBE) #3

I do not agree.

I played MOHSH back in the days and that game could not get more repetitive: 3 maps (bridge, hunt, V2) in obj mode were played either on public and on clanbase matches and often we used the same tacticks… The things that kept me playing were the game itself being so much fun and skill oriented, the community (you knew most players and clans and it was great to talk and to play vs them), the competitive element being clanbase matches and cups, my team who became friends and we would sit on TS just talking and playing cb matches or just public play,…

All of these things kept me playing a game and certainly not endless possibilities in a game that keep things ‘interesting’… the game just needs to be good even if it is repetitive it can be very good… I played DB for several hours already and it has never bored me… I think the game is suitable to built up a community around it… The only thing it then needs are real dedicated servers and a website like clanbase with cups (and .gifs ofcourse!!!)

The thing that would ruin it is probably the F2P model with all the known problems (cheaters, P2W, no dedicated servers)

(Glottis-3D) #4

[QUOTE=ToonBE;511714]All of these things kept me playing a game and certainly not endless possibilities in a game that keep things ‘interesting’… the game just needs to be good even if it is repetitive it can be very good… I played DB for several hours already and it has never bored me… I think the game is suitable to built up a community around it… The only thing it then needs are real dedicated servers and a website like clanbase with cups (and .gifs ofcourse!!!)
[/QUOTE]

we played this game for 1.5 years, and it does get VERY boring. unlike ET and ETQW, which both were fun even after several years!!

its that we know how amasingly FUN this kind of gameplay CAN be, and we see how it is NOT. (yet, i hope)

(Mustang) #5

I’m not sure sandbox is a good word to describe what you’re saying, considering it’s current use in games means something completely different.

For me what I take from your comments is that we should have more diverse skillsets or playstyles that players can opt for, so instead of mostly being aim centric allow for a player to focus on movement, support, sneak attacks, use of cover, various engagement ranges, verticality, etc.

Personally I think more movement mechanics, longer TTK and better map layouts will go a long way towards allowing this diversity/depth.

(Glottis-3D) #6

what Mustang said.

(ToonBE) #7

[QUOTE=Mustang;511721]I’m not sure sandbox is a good word to describe what you’re saying, considering it’s current use in games means something completely different.

For me what I take from your comments is that we should have more diverse skillsets or playstyles that players can opt for, so instead of mostly being aim centric allow for a player to focus on movement, support, sneak attacks, use of cover, various engagement ranges, verticality, etc.

Personally I think more movement mechanics, longer TTK and better map layouts will go a long way towards allowing this diversity/depth.[/QUOTE]

longer TTK??? no… It is good as it is… sometimes weapons feel underpowered like f.e. Fraggers granade… hardly does any damage while it should kill when frown directly onto someone when cooked.

(Glottis-3D) #8

Mustang is prbbly talking about extreme low TTK in certain situations like Redeye/Arty vs 100HP mercs (let alone vs Proxy =(((( ). from the point of view of lowHP merc any encounter with redeye or good arty. is an instakill.

the TTK with automatic weapons is very close to nice. except for Phoenix, who has rubber bullets =(

(Raviolay) #9

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;511731]Mustang is prbbly talking about extreme low TTK in certain situations like Redeye/Arty vs 100HP mercs (let alone vs Proxy =(((( ). from the point of view of lowHP merc any encounter with redeye or good arty. is an instakill.

the TTK with automatic weapons is very close to nice. except for Phoenix, who has rubber bullets =([/QUOTE]

Or another merc carrying redeye or arty’s gun…

(Erkin31) #10

For me what I take from your comments is that we should have more diverse skillsets or playstyles that players can opt for, so instead of mostly being aim centric allow for a player to focus on movement, support, sneak attacks, use of cover, various engagement ranges, verticality, etc.

Agree with this.

If I launch Tribes Ascend, I can play :

  • Light chaser to retrieve flag.
  • Light/Capper.
  • Heavy/Flag defense.
  • Medium/ Flag harass.
  • Infiltrator/ Base harass.
  • Sniper/Flag defense.
  • Engineer/Base defense-repair
  • With Vehicules (tank, aircraft)
  • Etc…

ET/ETQW had this kind of freedom of gameplay (big maps, multiple spawns, mines field, vehicules, better objectives, command posts, trick-jumps, etc.)

(onYn) #11

That´s why I put the word sandbox under " ";). It just seemed the best word in order to describe a creation of every persons own playstyle that right now is only possible by switching the mercs, what itself has very little effect on the game experience for me.
I mean probably some realistic (but of course not only) reasons for that are obviously things that we discussed hundreds times in the past. Class specific objectives and maps with more freedom to path taking, positioning, objective and spawn decissions could give a merc like a sniper a very unique playstyle, that would allow me to experience the game in a different way then while playing a medic, who currently, besides some ability discrepancy, doesn´t really change anything. I still mainly shoot people, go the same paths (mostly because there are no other paths ^^), can do every objective, I still can pick up people and yeah. Basically I could play 2 classes but the position I would have within the team wouldn´t change as drastically as it should in order to really make a difference. It for example doesn´t really matter if the medic or the sniper dies first, because when the medic dies the sniper picks him up, and when the sniper dies (or any other potential objective class) the medic does the objective… And that´s just an example for where the game potentially misses this specific “depth” to it that players need in order to experience it from different angles when they switch classes, play other maps or go to different positions, go more aggressive or stay more passive…
Since what we have been asking for is not going to happen I wonder if there is something else that will give us a game experience that doesn´t flatten out within a couple hours of playing.

The thing is, that everyone has his own favorite approach to a game. I for example like to play something very neutral that kinda can dish out some good damage, heal himself and go back to battle quickly, while still supplying your team to a certain degree. And without that being possible I probably wouldn´t have sticked with ET:QW not only for couple of hours but for thousands of hours. And this specific thing that someone likes to do or a specific role someones wants to fulfill is different for every single person. Because of that I think it is reasonable to say, the more different roles and things we potentially can do, the more people will actually find something in this game that will make them stick to it and in the end also pay for it. And for those who already enjoy the game anyways it will just lead to a much larger long therm motivation.

(rookie1) #12

SD seem not understand How Class specific is important for the game :frowning:
It’s the most important core pillar of the game.That would change so many things in the game spirit.
Right at the start you know it would be at different interesting match :stroggtapir:
Alternative :
Get the engy drop his tool on death that will remain on ground for few seconds to be pick be any other class and have an autodrop after a certain time to the one who would had pick it up