I was thinking about BRINK yesterday, and I thought of an issue...


(Rahdo) #21

Dead (can I call you Dead?), you make very good points about stats and the potentially negative impact they can have on player behavior. I’ve long had a similar concern about achievements, and am not a big fan of the “get 100 head shots with this weapon, get 500 groin shots with that weapon” type stuff. You’ve given me food for thought :slight_smile:

As for keeping friends playing together, we haven’t settled on a final system yet, but there’s a lot of ways we could handle it. Allowing higher level guys to jump into lower ranked matches but temporarily giving up the higher abilities they’d earned, the city of heroes “side kick” stuff for lower players hanging out with higher players, players giving each other XP so one can help one’s friend catch up, let lower level guys jump into higher ranked matches - warning them of the dangers, but giving them more XP, etc. Lot of ways we can go with this, don’t know what the final solution will be at this point, and about the only thing I can say for sure on the topic right now is that ensuring friends can play together without stuff getting in the way is one of my number one priorities for the game…


(RR2DO2) #22

Acidrain, the restart was unfortunate and could have been masked better (but aside from the temporary view of the desktop it didn’t stop users from connecting to the custom content server) but it solved several issues with older versions of the pure system where you could end up with the wrong resources in memory. Since a fundamental redesign was not a possibility for ETQW we at least ensured the system worked (bar the oversight for custom megatextures, but the average user you are talking about really does not want to auto-download 300+ megs of files anyway while joining a game server). The aim is to provide a less visually intrusive process in the future though.


(shirosae) #23

The biggest problem with the restart was the extra loading time. It would have been fine to go back to the desktop, if it didn’t mean an extra 60-120 seconds before you got onto the next map. For everyone running ATI AI, add another minute or so.

With some people playing off striped Raptors or even SSD, it basically meant missing the first few minutes every single mapchange.

That’s not to say OMG U SHOULD HAVE FIX0RED IT; I understand why it was how it was, just that there were some genuine hassles from it other than the ‘oh noes my desktop’ effect.


(deadlights) #24

[QUOTE=Rahdo;194703]Dead (can I call you Dead?), you make very good points about stats and the potentially negative impact they can have on player behavior. I’ve long had a similar concern about achievements, and am not a big fan of the “get 100 head shots with this weapon, get 500 groin shots with that weapon” type stuff. You’ve given me food for thought :slight_smile:

As for keeping friends playing together, we haven’t settled on a final system yet, but there’s a lot of ways we could handle it. Allowing higher level guys to jump into lower ranked matches but temporarily giving up the higher abilities they’d earned, the city of heroes “side kick” stuff for lower players hanging out with higher players, players giving each other XP so one can help one’s friend catch up, let lower level guys jump into higher ranked matches - warning them of the dangers, but giving them more XP, etc. Lot of ways we can go with this, don’t know what the final solution will be at this point, and about the only thing I can say for sure on the topic right now is that ensuring friends can play together without stuff getting in the way is one of my number one priorities for the game…[/QUOTE]

Indeed, call me Dead. :slight_smile:

I am glad you guys are thinking over there… Hell I trust you, but I have played SEVERAL games in competition and for fun, and to be honest… I think stats impact things in a bad way. Take QuakeLive for example. Old school game, amazing… I loved Quake 3. Then you add stats… What do you get? People who care more about their K/D and accuracy over winning the game.

In QuakeWars I played with a guy who would only recruit around stats. “Oh well he has a .22 K/D so he is bad…” Maybe not, maybe he just did the jobs that put him in the enemy line more often and is really good at those jobs…

I could write you a book on why I don’t like stats… And if you want me to I will. I think they are fun, don’t get me wrong… But for a more “casual” game and trying to be that “gateway” game. To me, they don’t fit.

“Allowing higher level guys to jump into lower ranked matches but temporarily giving up the higher abilities they’d earned” - Your only bad idea IMO. Then you will just have people trying to play with high levels to get the “free” unlocks… Whats the point of playing to level if people can do it for you?

But actually I think QLive did a great job with the skill level of servers. If you go there, you will notice some servers say “skill too high” some say “just right” and some say “your skill higher.” In QLive there is no real advantage to these servers. You get owned in the “too high” one and you can go pillage the “too low” one with ease. But what if there were rewards for playing higher? — Thats a good option. Maybe if you are higher and you drop down, your character is nerfed? Handycap? hmmm

I would say TF2 is a good balance for the most part. I actually just started playing again believe it or not… so all my characters are low on the totem pole. But as tokamak said before me… Most of the primary weapons in TF2 stay the same, aside from the Scouts new gun. So there really are not many issues. The other upgrades make the player more versitile in a given situation, which I like… but not more powerful.

As for CoD4, it was horrible. I was a sniper for a semipro CAL-M / LAN clan. So give me the perks of Deep Impact, a 50CAL with Double Tap and the one that gives 3 gernades. I will be getting that stupid helecopter all day. I could clear servers with those loadouts… And it was because as you level you get better guns that allow you to be more powerful.

For example: In TF2 - I play the sniper. I unlocked some jar of yellow stuff (pee)… and when you hit an enemy with it you get mini crits. But this replaces your 2nd weapon, the automatic gun. See, so now you have to finish them off with your 1 shot bow, 1 shot sniper rifle, or knife. This balances it out… And makes you versitile, and not more powerful.

Now CoD4. Low levels you dont have the AK47. Higher levels do… Higher level players end up on top 90% of the time. Now, if I am lower… I don’t care, I am 24 and have been playing games since I was 8. I can handle it… I can do well. Now the average new guy? The guy who just got the game and is scared of multiplayer? (I am talking Brink now) … They will get turned off if Brink was made in such a way. You may coax them out with 2x XP… but they will just run away again if the higher levels can just stomp them. (Oh and then brag about stats and k/d and calling them noobs while felxing their e-peen… lol)


(darthmob) #25

[QUOTE=deadlights;194715]
“Allowing higher level guys to jump into lower ranked matches but temporarily giving up the higher abilities they’d earned” - Your only bad idea IMO. Then you will just have people trying to play with high levels to get the “free” unlocks… Whats the point of playing to level if people can do it for you?[/QUOTE]Wait. Nothing was said about lower levels getting the unlocks on higher level servers. It’s just that you temporarly loose your abilities on a lower server which makes sense.

My thoughts on statistics:
It’s important how you present them. Eg. QuakeLive shows statistics for the complete account lifetime. The problem is when you had a bad start chances are high that it will always show in your ratios and accuracys. A suggestion that has been mentioned a few times is to base the statistics on a limited timeframe. Basically you only show the stats for the last two weeks - six months like it is done on last.fm or in steam games.


(Exedore) #26

I believe deadlights was more referring to ‘boosting’ by experienced players, who play in lower ranked matches to swing the matches to their friends’ side.
We haven’t said we’ll go that route yet, and that’s definitely a concern. While most of your XP will still be gleaned from actually doing things yourself, it would still be a unsavoury tactic for all the other players involved.


(deadlights) #27

[QUOTE=Exedore;194718]I believe deadlights was more referring to ‘boosting’ by experienced players, who play in lower ranked matches to swing the matches to their friends’ side.
We haven’t said we’ll go that route yet, and that’s definitely a concern. While most of your XP will still be gleaned from actually doing things yourself, it would still be a unsavoury tactic for all the other players involved.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, that is all I am trying to say here…

That IMO it would be a bad idea to allow any player to “piggy back” skills of another. So if I play higher level, I get those skills for the time being.

Then the people who were the first to rank will be like… “Why did I just do this, when X player is 4 ranks lower but still has my shotgun?”

Just something to watch out for.


(tokamak) #28

[QUOTE=acidrain;194695]Iortunately ETQWPro fixed the megatexture download issue, but having to restart the game multiple times just to join a custom game was what scared most people off.

Yes I understand the reasons for the restarts, but the user experience was just blah.[/QUOTE]

Well that’s definitely what put me off. Only when I really dedicated myself to ‘okay now I’m going to play custom maps for a whole evening’ I really played custom content.