@reciprocal a like just for the fast high quality delivery of a pun.
Befor the whole aimpunch increase/decrease episode it was possibly to supress a sniper by being faster than him on the draw.
Only the very best snipers could still land a headshot through the shake. that was a nice indirect buff for small arms against longrange weapons without making them deadlier.
Nowadays trying to supress a Sniper usually ends with your head blown off.
On the other hand the game has changed considerably since then and a sniper headshot had a different, more deadly meaning than it has now.
The times where I’ve shot at a Vasili with an automatic weapon, and purposfully try to rely on aimpunch to prevent me from getting shot back, I get headshot every single time.
Idk what y’all are crying about. Obviously it’s not an issue if the average Vasili isn’t affected.
…but it’s the other way around, right now the player who shoots first gets both the damage AND the aimpunch advantage. It’s honestly really stupid to be punished for aiming at the head or given random lucky headshots for aiming low due to aimpunch. Dirty Bomb is pretty much the ultimate skill-based shooter out there at the moment, I really don’t see why it needs a feature that adds RNG like this. It should go the way of really showing who’s who in a gunfight, as in who can flat out aim better rather than just miss the least headshots due to aimpunch.[/quote]
Its closer to its the only game in the category, not to mention the terrible sound now.
[quote=“Amerika;166530”]Pansy’s video was made after aimpunch was increased and before aimpunch was toned down (which IIRC happened twice) and it’s not a good representation of what DB is today. There is barely any aimpunch in the game anymore which has lead to almost nobody talking about it in quite some time. I actually thought this thread was a necro due to the subject.
What brought this up all of a sudden?[/quote]
Because lately I’ve been fidding around with the mumble crosshair I use and notice that even though my shots land dead on someone’s head sometimes, they also sometimes miss, for no real reason. The shot placement is the same, it’s one of three things.
The bloom or initial starting spread, which can explain the random chance of the bullets hitting x out y times. Or it could be the time it takes for a gun to return to it’s initial starting accuracy, or stabilize. Or the aim punch, which is not as noticeable for close range, but medium range I would definitely feel the difference, and the thing is I cannot pinpoint it.
I unfortunately am rather short on time available to examine this stuff, but my idea was to see how much my crosshair moves under fire, from various weapons if needed, then to see what happens while I am being shot, to see if there is a noticeable kick up when hitting a target like a wall at medium range.
This is minor, I realize this, but if we’re going to sit here and make statements like “Our overarching goal with the following changes is to remove some random elements to allow for a higher skill-ceiling, while also avoiding making particular weapons too powerful in the right hands”, then clearly we need to analyze why guns are having these misses, an M4 should be dominant at mid range and consistent compared to SMGs.
Either it’s initial starting accuracy that needs to be changed so that within the range of the M4, I am guaranteed to be able to tap shoot and hit my target’s head. Or, the aimpunch needs to be removed and recoil changed so if I miss it’s MY fault, not because the enemy is keeping pressured with fire, they are already depleting my health, they don’t need to ruin my aim as well.
As for Vasilli, considering aim punch has outright failed from the start to balance him I think the devs need to consider reducing close range effectiveness. Like increasing the scope in, raise, and drop times, as well as reducing his health.
It NEVER made sense to me for a Sniper to have the same health as a light medium build like Phoneix and Sawbonez. If he’s doing his job he will never need to have that much health, falloff will reduce damage enough to where it wouldn’t be a huge problem.
Sorry if this all seems pessimistic but dammit, I’m tired of games removing player control and putting more luck based systems in place as a form of balance. Especially in a Shooter that’s MEANT to be challenging and like the good old days. Before everyone tried to copy Call of Duty and Counter Strike.
So you are not even sure right now if the problems you have, come from aimpunch in the first place? maybe holding of the calls for total removal till you know would be nice.
Anyways as cool as custom crosshairs are they don’t show you spread and bloom maybe revert back to the full default crosshair during your tests because they do.
Another thing I can suggest if you have the capabilities and are not doing it already record your games. Personaly I have found after doing it a week that quite often that actual I wasn’t on target even though I could have sworn I was.
As for the M4 I disagree, the M4 is arguable better at mid to long range than an SMG. But will it consistently win? No because in this game weapons are fairly close to each other statswise. And that means the humanfactor plays a bigger role who will win. Instead of who has which weapon (considering that not everyone has access to the M4 this is imo a good thing) same goes for the mercs. Yes this or that merc might be better in certain situations but only being a little bit better in skills means you can take on a superior merc with an supposed inferior one.
No but it’s a good start since it’s the one thing of the three I can not control. I can control recoil, spread by tapping, things like that, but I can’t control aim punch. Please don’t be one of the people who says learn to dodge.
Still doesn’t change the fact that in those games the aim punch makes sense due to movement and time to kill. This game is faster, and has a generally longer ttk. The only way Dirty Bomb comes close is when you have a player nailing all their headshots.
There’s no reason to have this style of aim punch, the mobility of the players and the skill required to do well already balances out a lot of the gameplay. There doesn’t need to be that extra layer of random chance added to the fights.[/quote]
Don’t misunderstand me. I agree that Dirty Bomb may feel better without aim punch as it is very fast paced and mobile. Similar to games like unreal tournament and quake where there isn’t any.
However I believe adding it is just going to make most gun fights turn into who has the better gun or who can spray and takes away the advantage of shooting someone first.
I don’t want to be shooting at a Vassili player only to be headshotted extremely easily, nor do I want to shoot someone from behind and watch them turn around with a shotgun and easily one shot me.[/quote]
I sincerely doubt that since flanking would still have a major part to play, plus there’s differences in health, damage, etc.
And as for Vasilli, his problem is still that he doesn’t need the extra health or fast scope in time. Toning down those stats would make a him a little weaker in CQC, and therefore be able to be dealt with.[/quote]
Flanking is going to be the most affected mechanic of the game if you take away aim punch, regardless of difference in merc health, size, speed, damage, and etc.
Flanking is now going to be less effective due to the increased possibility of the enemy player turning on the flank and shooting you back unhindered.
If you take away aim punch power weapons such as snipers, shotguns, revivr, Blishlok, Driess AR, BR-16, Stark AR, Smjüth & Whetsman, and grenade launcher will become insanely powerful and stomp on all the other weapons.
Especially the BR-16, Driess AR, and Stark AR. One click, three bullets to the head kills for days.
You should have seen how horribly an experienced player could wreck a team before the Dreiss AR’s nerfs.
Still doesn’t change the fact that in those games the aim punch makes sense due to movement and time to kill. This game is faster, and has a generally longer ttk. The only way Dirty Bomb comes close is when you have a player nailing all their headshots.
There’s no reason to have this style of aim punch, the mobility of the players and the skill required to do well already balances out a lot of the gameplay. There doesn’t need to be that extra layer of random chance added to the fights.[/quote]
Don’t misunderstand me. I agree that Dirty Bomb may feel better without aim punch as it is very fast paced and mobile. Similar to games like unreal tournament and quake where there isn’t any.
However I believe adding it is just going to make most gun fights turn into who has the better gun or who can spray and takes away the advantage of shooting someone first.
I don’t want to be shooting at a Vassili player only to be headshotted extremely easily, nor do I want to shoot someone from behind and watch them turn around with a shotgun and easily one shot me.[/quote]
I sincerely doubt that since flanking would still have a major part to play, plus there’s differences in health, damage, etc.
And as for Vasilli, his problem is still that he doesn’t need the extra health or fast scope in time. Toning down those stats would make a him a little weaker in CQC, and therefore be able to be dealt with.[/quote]
Flanking is going to be the most affected mechanic of the game if you take away aim punch, regardless of difference in merc health, size, speed, damage, and etc.
Flanking is now going to be less effective due to the increased possibility of the enemy player turning on the flank and shooting you back unhindered.
If you take away aim punch power weapons such as snipers, shotguns, revivr, Blishlok, Driess AR, BR-16, Stark AR, Smjüth & Whetsman, and grenade launcher will become insanely powerful and stomp on all the other weapons.
Especially the BR-16, Driess AR, and Stark AR. One click, three bullets to the head kills for days.
You should have seen how horribly an experienced player could wreck a team before the Dreiss AR’s nerfs.[/quote]
I doubt that honestly, I still see flanking being a viable tactic, and all you really described was weapons needing a clear nerf, the Dreiss had it’s ROF nerfed. The Burst Rifles could also have the burst delay slower, and I am not sure how the Revolver would be op but ok.
And the Grenade Launcher isn’t even hitscan or a typical weapon so I’m not sure how that has anything to do with this.
Flanking is all a matter of catching people by surprise and really it’d come down to how fast people react and how well they aim, both of which are purely in control of the players.
Many people are fine with aimpunch who hate randomness. What a lot of those same people dislike is actual aimpunch that moves your crosshair and makes you miss as opposed to visual aimpunch. Visual aimpunch allows the game/guns to have another tuning knob but competent players can still fight through it because they know where they are shooting even if their screen is going all over. Food for thought.
There WAS a serious aim punch before and aim punch itself still does exists, but I can hardly believe the fact someone is having troubles with the aim punch.
DB’s aim punch is really really slight that when you get hit during ADS, all it does is just your ironsight/scope goes up a bit and goes down again in very short time. Not even left and right random, or the random spread increase. goes up and down.
Still doesn’t change the fact that in those games the aim punch makes sense due to movement and time to kill. This game is faster, and has a generally longer ttk. The only way Dirty Bomb comes close is when you have a player nailing all their headshots.
There’s no reason to have this style of aim punch, the mobility of the players and the skill required to do well already balances out a lot of the gameplay. There doesn’t need to be that extra layer of random chance added to the fights.[/quote]
Don’t misunderstand me. I agree that Dirty Bomb may feel better without aim punch as it is very fast paced and mobile. Similar to games like unreal tournament and quake where there isn’t any.
However I believe adding it is just going to make most gun fights turn into who has the better gun or who can spray and takes away the advantage of shooting someone first.
I don’t want to be shooting at a Vassili player only to be headshotted extremely easily, nor do I want to shoot someone from behind and watch them turn around with a shotgun and easily one shot me.[/quote]
I sincerely doubt that since flanking would still have a major part to play, plus there’s differences in health, damage, etc.
And as for Vasilli, his problem is still that he doesn’t need the extra health or fast scope in time. Toning down those stats would make a him a little weaker in CQC, and therefore be able to be dealt with.[/quote]
Flanking is going to be the most affected mechanic of the game if you take away aim punch, regardless of difference in merc health, size, speed, damage, and etc.
Flanking is now going to be less effective due to the increased possibility of the enemy player turning on the flank and shooting you back unhindered.
If you take away aim punch power weapons such as snipers, shotguns, revivr, Blishlok, Driess AR, BR-16, Stark AR, Smjüth & Whetsman, and grenade launcher will become insanely powerful and stomp on all the other weapons.
Especially the BR-16, Driess AR, and Stark AR. One click, three bullets to the head kills for days.
You should have seen how horribly an experienced player could wreck a team before the Dreiss AR’s nerfs.[/quote]
I doubt that honestly, I still see flanking being a viable tactic, and all you really described was weapons needing a clear nerf, the Dreiss had it’s ROF nerfed. The Burst Rifles could also have the burst delay slower, and I am not sure how the Revolver would be op but ok.
And the Grenade Launcher isn’t even hitscan or a typical weapon so I’m not sure how that has anything to do with this.
Flanking is all a matter of catching people by surprise and really it’d come down to how fast people react and how well they aim, both of which are purely in control of the players.
[/quote]
lol. I described weapons that are strong in most gun fights, which again proves that removing aim punch just turns into who has a better gun and removes the “shot first” advantage. Flanking will still be viable however, just weaker.
Burst rifles with a slower delay will not solve anything. As long as I’m able to keep my cross hair at your head. It’s going to be easy pickin’s for me without aim punch.
Flanking is in fact a matter of catching people by surprise, however getting in that first shot is what gives you that advantage and if the person getting shot can return that fire back unhindered that advantage becomes negligible.
I rage about it sometimes, usually the worst when long range and someone has an SMG and I have a AR or Sniper. I do think at longer ranges SMG shouldnt aimpunch so hard, but thast the only problem I have with it except when i’m using Grandeur , which just likes to shoot randomly by itself
I just don’t ever notice aim punch and I play a hell of a lot of Dirty Bomb. I don’t think anything needs to change. Kill time is usually that fast any way I don’t think it would even matter. Smaller weaker mercs would suffer something chronic if this really is a big deal. Half the time I catch people out with Proxy I win my battles because I am consistently landing headshots on them with the Hochfir, so I can only assume they are experiencing aim punch or something. If anything this would only make the stronger mercs even stronger, which is not something we need :neutral:
[quote="@Ctrix;166688"]The times where I’ve shot at a Vasili with an automatic weapon, and purposfully try to rely on aimpunch to prevent me from getting shot back, I get headshot every single time.
Idk what y’all are crying about. Obviously it’s not an issue if the average Vasili isn’t affected.[/quote]
Mother of god. This. So much this. Every single time.
Just remove it. [quote=“Szakalot;167122”]what K-Smooth said, aimpunch from hochfir is so gddamn annoying, feels like they balance his smg around it, lol[/quote]
double it for sniper rifles
remove the screen shake from airstrikes and blown up C4’s
Aimpunch is supposed to give the better aimer the edge of a fight but that isn’t the case if you’re fighting a sniper, even a mediocre one, with an automatic. And the general screen shake from big explosions is just a huge randomizer.
