I feel like the Tolen makes the Hochfir uneccesary for Proxy.

KayDubz · 2015-07-24 23:10:29 UTC

So Ive been trying new loadouts for Proxy, while deciding what may be my main loudout for her.

After initially being wowed by the RPM and clip size of the Hochfir, I did some testing alone. And then I looked over the Dirty Bomb spreadsheet as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=0

Seems like the Tolen and Hochfir have the same number of bullets it takes to kill all other mercs. And according to my tests as well as wikis and forums for DB, both have 9 damage per bullet. The only key difference is the huge Hochfir clip size at 55 vs 35 for the Tolen. Also the Tolen has a RPM of around 730…vs the Hochfir at 810. The recoil and spread is pretty ok for both weapons.

http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons for more details.

This translate to the Hochfir only slightly winning out in a higher damage per second, and a lower average time to kill (0.44 for Hochfir vs 0.49 for the Tolen)

All in all, I dont see much benefit to the Hochfir if you know how to aim. It seems like it only really helps spraying and praying. It might be useful for prolonged gun fights…but if you use the Double Time augment with a Tolen, youre easily able to flee a gunfight quickly, while reloading, and then return to finish the fight (thats if youre not too efficient with a 35 bullet clip)

Thoughts? I personally think the Hochfir needs more to set it apart as a viable weapon for proxy. Right now it feels kinda useless as a primary…and it also makes secondary machine pistols feel redundant if they are paired with the Hochfir.

Jojack · 2015-07-24 23:25:20 UTC

I have discovered the same thing. I traded up for a silver proxy and was disappointed to not get the Hochfir loadout I wanted. I got the H11 with Hollunds, MP400 with Drilled, Enigma and Cool. So I tried it out and I actually love it. The MP400 is fine if your aim is on and you get a pretty good shotgun to finish fights fast with.

I’m not crazy about the augments on the card, but I find I preferred this load out so much more than my old Hochfir bronze that I traded it in. However, I think I would still prefer the Remburg with Tolen and double time.

The Hochfir/MP400/Stilleto with double time would probably be my favorite though. Haven’t had the luck to try it out yet. And probably never will because I only play Proxy if I have a mission for her being in my squad and another to get objective xp (same mission now, I guess).

Anyway, back to the OP I agree to a point. You have to look at the combo of primary and secondary though, because that’s what it comes down to. The more experienced players get, the more they switch to secondary when out of ammo instead of reload. Classes that have basically two viable primaries like Fletcher and Proxy have a big advantage here.

Do you prefer 2 smg’s, an SMG and a shotgun, or an SMG OR a shotgun with a pistol for secondary? The first two are better, obviously, but I think which is better comes down to preferences.

I really don’t think the Hochfir is obsolete due to a secondary any more than the Aunuld or Blish are obsolete due tot he EMP 9 on Fletcher. Both Fletcher and Proxy get great secondaries and not so great primaries. It sort of balances out.

XavienX · 2015-07-24 23:32:16 UTC

It confuses me why Fletcher and Proxy can have a SMG and a machine pistol at the same time while other SMG main mercs can’t do that.

Andyman99999 · 2015-07-24 23:33:18 UTC

[quote=“Kay-Dubz;15082”]So Ive been trying new loadouts for Proxy, while deciding what may be my main loudout for her.

After initially being wowed by the RPM and clip size of the Hochfir, I did some testing alone. And then I looked over the Dirty Bomb spreadsheet as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=0

Seems like the Tolen and Hochfir have the same number of bullets it takes to kill all other mercs. And according to my tests as well as wikis and forums for DB, both have 9 damage per bullet. The only key difference is the huge Hochfir clip size at 55 vs 35 for the Tolen. Also the Tolen has a RPM of around 730…vs the Hochfir at 810. The recoil and spread is pretty ok for both weapons.

http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons for more details.

This translate to the Hochfir only slightly winning out in a higher damage per second, and a lower average time to kill (0.44 for Hochfir vs 0.49 for the Tolen)

All in all, I dont see much benefit to the Hochfir if you know how to aim. It seems like it only really helps spraying and praying. It might be useful for prolonged gun fights…but if you use the Double Time augment with a Tolen, youre easily able to flee a gunfight quickly, while reloading, and then return to finish the fight (thats if youre not too efficient with a 35 bullet clip)

Thoughts? I personally think the Hochfir needs more to set it apart as a viable weapon for proxy. Right now it feels kinda useless as a primary…and it also makes secondary machine pistols feel redundant if they are paired with the Hochfir.[/quote]
This is important info since I like playing Proxy. One thing I would like to know are the reload speeds on both of the weapons SMGs though.

Jojack · 2015-07-24 23:36:38 UTC

Because Fletcher gets the Blishlock and Proxy gets the Hochfir. I would trade either of them and the empire 9/mp400/tolen for a single crotzni/kek.

Basically: (Blish + Emp9) < (Hochfir + MP400) < (Crotzni + Pistol) < (Kek + Pistol).

Jojack · 2015-07-24 23:41:02 UTC

[quote=“Andyman99999;53547”][quote=“Kay-Dubz;15082”]So Ive been trying new loadouts for Proxy, while deciding what may be my main loudout for her.

After initially being wowed by the RPM and clip size of the Hochfir, I did some testing alone. And then I looked over the Dirty Bomb spreadsheet as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=0

Seems like the Tolen and Hochfir have the same number of bullets it takes to kill all other mercs. And according to my tests as well as wikis and forums for DB, both have 9 damage per bullet. The only key difference is the huge Hochfir clip size at 55 vs 35 for the Tolen. Also the Tolen has a RPM of around 730…vs the Hochfir at 810. The recoil and spread is pretty ok for both weapons.

http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons for more details.

This translate to the Hochfir only slightly winning out in a higher damage per second, and a lower average time to kill (0.44 for Hochfir vs 0.49 for the Tolen)

All in all, I dont see much benefit to the Hochfir if you know how to aim. It seems like it only really helps spraying and praying. It might be useful for prolonged gun fights…but if you use the Double Time augment with a Tolen, youre easily able to flee a gunfight quickly, while reloading, and then return to finish the fight (thats if youre not too efficient with a 35 bullet clip)

Thoughts? I personally think the Hochfir needs more to set it apart as a viable weapon for proxy. Right now it feels kinda useless as a primary…and it also makes secondary machine pistols feel redundant if they are paired with the Hochfir.[/quote]
This is important info since I like playing Proxy. One thing I would like to know are the reload speeds on both of the weapons SMGs though.[/quote]

Check the link to the spread sheet, then click on weapon stats tab on the bottom.

Hochfir reload = 1.9
Tolen reload = 1.8

Andyman99999 · 2015-07-24 23:55:44 UTC

[quote=“Jojack;53558”][quote=“Andyman99999;53547”][quote=“Kay-Dubz;15082”]So Ive been trying new loadouts for Proxy, while deciding what may be my main loudout for her.

After initially being wowed by the RPM and clip size of the Hochfir, I did some testing alone. And then I looked over the Dirty Bomb spreadsheet as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=0

Seems like the Tolen and Hochfir have the same number of bullets it takes to kill all other mercs. And according to my tests as well as wikis and forums for DB, both have 9 damage per bullet. The only key difference is the huge Hochfir clip size at 55 vs 35 for the Tolen. Also the Tolen has a RPM of around 730…vs the Hochfir at 810. The recoil and spread is pretty ok for both weapons.

http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons for more details.

This translate to the Hochfir only slightly winning out in a higher damage per second, and a lower average time to kill (0.44 for Hochfir vs 0.49 for the Tolen)

All in all, I dont see much benefit to the Hochfir if you know how to aim. It seems like it only really helps spraying and praying. It might be useful for prolonged gun fights…but if you use the Double Time augment with a Tolen, youre easily able to flee a gunfight quickly, while reloading, and then return to finish the fight (thats if youre not too efficient with a 35 bullet clip)

Thoughts? I personally think the Hochfir needs more to set it apart as a viable weapon for proxy. Right now it feels kinda useless as a primary…and it also makes secondary machine pistols feel redundant if they are paired with the Hochfir.[/quote]
This is important info since I like playing Proxy. One thing I would like to know are the reload speeds on both of the weapons SMGs though.[/quote]

Check the link to the spread sheet, then click on weapon stats tab on the bottom.

Hochfir reload = 1.9
Tolen reload = 1.8[/quote]
I’m assuming this is in seconds. Personally, I think they should lower the reload time on the Tolen if they’re going to make the Hochfir fire that much faster.

watsyurdeal · 2015-07-25 00:13:57 UTC

So I guess the real question is what is the difference in accuracy…and Remburg vs Hollands…

ludicrousBlast · 2015-07-25 04:11:28 UTC

[quote=“Kay-Dubz;15082”]So Ive been trying new loadouts for Proxy, while deciding what may be my main loudout for her.

After initially being wowed by the RPM and clip size of the Hochfir, I did some testing alone. And then I looked over the Dirty Bomb spreadsheet as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=0

Seems like the Tolen and Hochfir have the same number of bullets it takes to kill all other mercs. And according to my tests as well as wikis and forums for DB, both have 9 damage per bullet. The only key difference is the huge Hochfir clip size at 55 vs 35 for the Tolen. Also the Tolen has a RPM of around 730…vs the Hochfir at 810. The recoil and spread is pretty ok for both weapons.

http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons for more details.

This translate to the Hochfir only slightly winning out in a higher damage per second, and a lower average time to kill (0.44 for Hochfir vs 0.49 for the Tolen)

All in all, I dont see much benefit to the Hochfir if you know how to aim. It seems like it only really helps spraying and praying. It might be useful for prolonged gun fights…but if you use the Double Time augment with a Tolen, youre easily able to flee a gunfight quickly, while reloading, and then return to finish the fight (thats if youre not too efficient with a 35 bullet clip)

Thoughts? I personally think the Hochfir needs more to set it apart as a viable weapon for proxy. Right now it feels kinda useless as a primary…and it also makes secondary machine pistols feel redundant if they are paired with the Hochfir.[/quote]

I think that the tolen mp and the hochfir smg are both MP5’s, except the tolen has no stock, barrel, and a smaller magazine.

B_Montiel · 2015-07-25 05:42:11 UTC

I don’t know, Tolen feels very weak compared to the MP400 if you aim well. It seems to have a much wider spread. Out of the three machine pistol, I still think that the mp400 is still the best for DING DING DING DING moves.

Ghosthree3 · 2015-07-25 06:35:10 UTC

A big reason Hochfire is better is the total ammo capacity though. If you run around using the Tolen as a primary you’ll be empty in no time.

KayDubz · 2015-07-25 09:41:00 UTC

Two reasons I didnt bring up the MP400:

With its 11 damage, 30 clip mag and 619 RPM…I feel its more different from the Hochfir than the Tolen is. The Tolen and Hochfir both have 9 damage per bullet and the Tolen has an RPM 111 points higher at 730. I just personally think the feel of the Tolen is closer to the Hochfir.
The is Tolen is available in 4 loadouts…while the MP400 is available in only 2. And those two loadouts have pretty lame augments in my opinion.

a) Pinapple Juggle, Try Hard, and Double Time. Primary is the Hochfir, secondary is the MP400. I really only see double time as being useful. Reloading while running is nice…but how often will you need it seeing as your primary is a 55 bullet clip of the Hochfir with a 30 bullet clip MP400 as your sidearm? I personally find myself needing Double Time to retreat, reload, and return with the Remburg as its only 5 shots. (mind you it takes a bit longer to reload a shotgun fully)

Try Hard isnt useful to a good Proxy player…because between good aim and mine placements, you shouldnt have a negative KDR or die often without getting a kill in. And regarding pineapple juggler…we all know why thats a trash augment. When do you have time to toss back nades in this game?

b) Drilled, Enigma, and Cool. Primary weapon is the Hollunds, secondary is the MP400. Drilled is ok, and helps with a shotgun. Enigma is pretty damn lame. Oh great…I will be spotted by heartbeat sensor for half the time…but my position is given up anyway. If Im spotted, I dont care if its for the full or half time…against a good team Enigma doesnt help. If I continue toward wherever the sensor is, a good sniper will pick me off anyway.

Cool doesnt need too much explaining…as proxy shouldnt be sitting on mounted turrets anyways. And a good player knows how to avoid overheating them quickly without this Augment.

So as you can see, the MP400 loadouts have really only 1 useful augment in my opinion. And personally, I do not use loadouts unless they feature at least 2 useful augments.