Note that I’m talking about Hollund and Remburg. It’s already a usual thing for these two shotguns to be able to one shot mercs with 120 health or below and their fire rate allow them to easily take mercs with 150 health down in two shots.
Is there any nerf being worked on for these two weapons and when will they be coming?
You can’t one shot 120 hp mercs with a shotgun unless you are litterally glued to them and aiming for the head. Remburg deals max 98 damage per shot, Hollunds deals max 88 damage per shot. Due to the pellet dispersion and falloff, most of shotgun end up dealing pityful damage past five meters between you and your target while a SMG will still be able to empty its clip right in your face.
That’s the indentity of DB shotguns (and most of shotguns while we’re at it) : absurdly powerful at short range, ridiculously harmless over distance. In a game where the metagame is mid-long ranged, it’s not surprising to know that shotguns are not played in real competitions.
If anything, the shotguns needs some kind of rework in order to have some viability in comp. Not a straight nerf.
[quote=“Eox;178307”]You can’t one shot 120 hp mercs with a shotgun unless you are litterally glued to them and aiming for the head. Remburg deals max 98 damage per shot, Hollunds deals max 88 damage per shot. Due to the pellet dispersion and falloff, most of shotgun end up dealing pityful damage past five meters between you and your target while a SMG will still be able to empty its clip right in your face.
That’s the indentity of DB shotguns (and most of shotguns while we’re at it) : absurdly powerful at short range, ridiculously harmless over distance. In a game where the metagame is mid-long ranged, it’s not surprising to know that shotguns are not played in real competitions.
If anything, the shotguns needs some kind of rework in order to have some viability in comp. Not a straight nerf.[/quote]
That’s weird about the shotgun damage you posted, I had my moment getting one shotted while playing Arty before but not that often. It happened when a Prox was standing right in front of me and blew into my face and the 2nd time was when I was playing Kira, same thing except this time is a Hollund, quite sure they weren’t headshots, also I’m Not looking for a straight up nerf as well, just the bs fire rate nerf because it’s possible for a shotgun to fire 2 shots when a burst fire rifle can fire only one burst.
[quote=“aristocraticLadder;178318”][quote=“Eox;178307”]You can’t one shot 120 hp mercs with a shotgun unless you are litterally glued to them and aiming for the head. Remburg deals max 98 damage per shot, Hollunds deals max 88 damage per shot. Due to the pellet dispersion and falloff, most of shotgun end up dealing pityful damage past five meters between you and your target while a SMG will still be able to empty its clip right in your face.
That’s the indentity of DB shotguns (and most of shotguns while we’re at it) : absurdly powerful at short range, ridiculously harmless over distance. In a game where the metagame is mid-long ranged, it’s not surprising to know that shotguns are not played in real competitions.
If anything, the shotguns needs some kind of rework in order to have some viability in comp. Not a straight nerf.[/quote]
That’s weird about the shotgun damage you posted, I had my moment getting one shotted while playing Arty before but not that often. It happened when a Prox was standing right in front of me and blew into my face and the 2nd time was when I was playing Kira, same thing except this time is a Hollund, quite sure they weren’t headshots, also I’m Not looking for a straight up nerf as well, just the bs fire rate nerf because it’s possible for a shotgun to fire 2 shots when a burst fire rifle can fire only one burst.[/quote]
You sure you weren’t hit by something else at the same time ? Anyway, you can find the weapon stats here : http://dirtybomb.gamepedia.com/Weapon
To be fair, I’d pick a burst fire over a shotgun anytime. They don’t have the crippling range issues shotguns have and pack a lot of punch. You can find in the spreadsheet that remburg have an insane DPS, but don’t forget that it has a huge range issue too.
There’s also Syku’s spreadsheet if you want more detailed weapon stats, but it seems borked right now. Have the link anyway : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit
[quote=“aristocraticLadder;178318”][quote=“Eox;178307”]You can’t one shot 120 hp mercs with a shotgun unless you are litterally glued to them and aiming for the head. Remburg deals max 98 damage per shot, Hollunds deals max 88 damage per shot. Due to the pellet dispersion and falloff, most of shotgun end up dealing pityful damage past five meters between you and your target while a SMG will still be able to empty its clip right in your face.
That’s the indentity of DB shotguns (and most of shotguns while we’re at it) : absurdly powerful at short range, ridiculously harmless over distance. In a game where the metagame is mid-long ranged, it’s not surprising to know that shotguns are not played in real competitions.
If anything, the shotguns needs some kind of rework in order to have some viability in comp. Not a straight nerf.[/quote]
That’s weird about the shotgun damage you posted, I had my moment getting one shotted while playing Arty before but not that often. It happened when a Prox was standing right in front of me and blew into my face and the 2nd time was when I was playing Kira, same thing except this time is a Hollund, quite sure they weren’t headshots, also I’m Not looking for a straight up nerf as well, just the bs fire rate nerf because it’s possible for a shotgun to fire 2 shots when a burst fire rifle can fire only one burst.[/quote]
I think that the killfeed doesn’t register the shot as a headshot unless most of the pellets hit the head - I think if you aim at their neck and, say, 50% of the bullets hit the body and 40% hit the neck and 10% miss, then it’ll count it as a bodyshot… Just a theory though - I want to test it at some point. But anyway the Remburg does 96 damage per shot if every pellet hits (which requires you to aim perfectly at centre mass, unlike with other guns where you can aim anywhere on the body and still get your full DPS, the shots require PERFECT accuracy (unless you’re in melee distance, where the spread is less substantial)
Trust me, though - shotguns are incredibly underpowered in this game. I’d say the Arnuhld is viable, just cause it has a longer range, but the others are so situational that yo’ure better off running around with your pistol out instead for the most part.
@Eox 100% sure I wasn’t hit by something else other than her shotgun, it was 1v1 in a room and thanks for the spreadsheet 
@ProfPlump It could have been that, wish SD would do something that separate head and body damage completely like they did with other weapons in the game and I agree with you about Ahnuld but I disagree with you about other shotguns being under powered 
Remburg and Hollund fire rate make them too powerful at the moment
“It’s possible for a shotgun to fire 2 shots when a burst fire rifle can fire only one burst.”
It’s not the shotguns, it’s the maps.
Would you really say shotguns are THAT strong on a map like Chapel? Probably the most long range preferred map.
Same for explosives, compare dealing with Fletcher/Nader in Underground compared to Chapel/Dome.
The more I play these maps the more I start getting upset about certain chokepoints, covers etc, where they are and aren’t needed.
I find shotguns extremely weak in this game, considering how every other gun can shoot with pinpoint accuracy and with so little damage falloff. If I get too close to shotguns and get one or two-shot, it’s my own fault.
Same with snipers, if I just waltz straight down the main road without bothering taking cover from a popular sniper nest, it’s my own fault.
There is perfect counterplay for dealing with shotguns: from a greater distance.
It’s your own fault if you don’t apply it.
Of course there are situations where you have to take the risk, but it’s still your own decision to take on a shotgun around the corner instead of relying on your teammates and waiting those extra seconds for backup.
Actually ignore all that, I’m sure ALL the shotgun players are waiting around corners just for you. 
The shotguns basically all need to be the ahnuld… Then increase the range of the ahnuld. Less op in cqc, more viable at range
You would also have damage adjustment of course
Personally I am of the opinion of making the shotguns so diverse and different that they become new weapons.
The Remburg should be a super shotgun, right click fires both barrels. 6 shots but 3 double blasts max, enough to one shot 110 hp mercs.
The Hollunds should be a semi auto, the Annuld should be a long range shotgun, ideal for headshots.
Idk, but at this point the shotguns are far too situational to be anything more than annoyance.
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;179259”]Personally I am of the opinion of making the shotguns so diverse and different that they become new weapons.
The Remburg should be a super shotgun, right click fires both barrels. 6 shots but 3 double blasts max, enough to one shot 110 hp mercs.
The Hollunds should be a semi auto, the Annuld should be a long range shotgun, ideal for headshots.
Idk, but at this point the shotguns are far too situational to be anything more than annoyance. [/quote]
I do support the idea of making the Hollunds and Ahnuhld being able to have more range, like the Hollunds having 7.5m and the Ahnuhld having 10m of range. It’s small, but it should be effective.
I think that shotguns dealing more damage to objectives and Fletcher being nerfed in regards to his sticky bombs (and buffed to 130 HP) would be a lot more helpful in enabling diversity.
The Remburg would be the best firearm for destroying objectives due to its high DPS in close range, and combos well with Proxy’s abilities, making Remburg Proxy have more of a use besides information. It’s basically an objective specialist with Mechanic, and it’s a dangerous combo.
The Ahnuhld would be the best shotgun for straight up combat, due to its increased range, but be inefficient at destroying objectives due to its lower DPS.
The Hollunds would be a mix between the two, being able to destroy objectives as well as a K-121, but also having the ability to take down enemies like the Ahnuhld can.
Shotguns are annoying but they aren’t overpowered in regards to the situations you find yourself in the game. They are extremely powerful up close if you have good aim and go for heads. They are pretty horrid in virtually all other scenarios where even medium or longer range is a concern. Due to them being stuck as a primary weapon there is no proper way to balance them easily as they could easily become way too good or become too weak.
I would like to see shotguns moved to the secondary slot (similar to how some mercs have machine pistols). They could be toned down but still made good for a secondary and new weapons could be brought in to replace them.
But, currently, they are a primary weapon so you have to contend with the idea that they are going to be really good in CQC because that is the only way to justify their primary use slot. So dial down the anger a bit if you die to them in CQC but you will barely be touched by them at any other range. Keep that in mind and you’ll suddenly stop caring about it.
[quote=“Amerika;179620”]Shotguns are annoying but they aren’t overpowered in regards to the situations you find yourself in the game. They are extremely powerful up close if you have good aim and go for heads. They are pretty horrid in virtually all other scenarios where even medium or longer range is a concern. Due to them being stuck as a primary weapon there is no proper way to balance them easily as they could easily become way too good or become too weak.
I would like to see shotguns moved to the secondary slot (similar to how some mercs have machine pistols). They could be toned down but still made good for a secondary and new weapons could be brought in to replace them.
But, currently, they are a primary weapon so you have to contend with the idea that they are going to be really good in CQC because that is the only way to justify their primary use slot. So dial down the anger a bit if you die to them in CQC but you will barely be touched by them at any other range. Keep that in mind and you’ll suddenly stop caring about it.[/quote]
I wish I could, truly but 50% maps(objective/stopwatch mode) are built for CQC and not mid-long range gun fight(Terminal, Underground, Bridge and indoor buildings on other maps) and as a guy who doesn’t rely on his teammates most of the time(due to them not being reliable) I usually go to attack or do the objective by myself.
Virtually all guns are good in CQC. Shotguns are simply going to be slightly better IF they have aim/don’t panic. Simple strafing will make most typical pub goers miss you pretty often and even one miss can make the difference if you have decent aim. If you’re constantly dying to shotgun users on pubs you probably need to work on your strafing techniques to make people miss. I rarely die to typical shotgun users due to my years and years of doing the strafe dance in Q3 and CS (all versions). It’s funny just how much stuttering your movement, being unpredictable can help win fights even if your aim was horrible in the exchange.
And if you’re rushing objectives directly into shotgun range without clearing first you might need to evaluate how you do that.
[quote=“JJMAJR;179607”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;179259”]Personally I am of the opinion of making the shotguns so diverse and different that they become new weapons.
The Remburg should be a super shotgun, right click fires both barrels. 6 shots but 3 double blasts max, enough to one shot 110 hp mercs.
The Hollunds should be a semi auto, the Annuld should be a long range shotgun, ideal for headshots.
Idk, but at this point the shotguns are far too situational to be anything more than annoyance. [/quote]
I do support the idea of making the Hollunds and Ahnuhld being able to have more range, like the Hollunds having 7.5m and the Ahnuhld having 10m of range. It’s small, but it should be effective.
I think that shotguns dealing more damage to objectives and Fletcher being nerfed in regards to his sticky bombs (and buffed to 130 HP) would be a lot more helpful in enabling diversity.
The Remburg would be the best firearm for destroying objectives due to its high DPS in close range, and combos well with Proxy’s abilities, making Remburg Proxy have more of a use besides information. It’s basically an objective specialist with Mechanic, and it’s a dangerous combo.
The Ahnuhld would be the best shotgun for straight up combat, due to its increased range, but be inefficient at destroying objectives due to its lower DPS.
The Hollunds would be a mix between the two, being able to destroy objectives as well as a K-121, but also having the ability to take down enemies like the Ahnuhld can.[/quote]
Generators are already way too easy to destroy without the use of C4 - we don’t need any more reasons for people just to stop bothering to repair them.
Think of the barricade generator on Bridge - all you need is to spam that thing with Nader, Stoker, Fletcher or even rush it with Proxy mines, and it’s down in LESS time than if you managed to plant and defend the C4. If shotguns could also be powerhouse objective-destroyers, then it’d be even quicker (especially for Proxy and Fletcher, who could just run in after using their explosives, and dance around avoiding shots while shooting solely at the generator).
@ProfPlump having Proxy and Fletcher shoot the generator isn’t as much of a problem to me. If they can get that close to the objective, you are doing something wrong, or they’re doing something much better than you are. Besides, Fragger should be able to destroy that thing a lot more effectively than a bunch of people running up to it and trying to shred the thing using shotguns.
hey somke where is your toxic baes?
i agree with you shotguns are annoying and probably only class of weapons who have fast time to kill combine that with the light fast speed mercs that creates a hit and run monsterousity .
i would see a small tweaks to shotguns in general
Ok so here’s the problem - generators, especially crucial side objectives like the one on Bridge, are designed to be taken by overpowering the team who is defending, planting the bomb, and then preventing two waves of enemies from taking it back.
However, with the fact that these generators can simply be destroyed by fire-and-forget explosives means that the attacking team can just suicide rush the objective, throw a molotov/plant a couple of mines/spam a MGL at the objective, and then immediately be killed. This means that the attacking team is no longer playing a skill-based game of besting their opponents - they are just rushing and dodging bullets long enough to complete their objective. This would be more competitive if these suicide rushes were easier to stop in their tracks, but with the speed on Proxy, as well as her ability to build up Tryhard HP to 120HP, means that the enemy team can rarely kill her before she gets in (and a whole team rushing with different explosives mercs makes it even more impossible to stop).
So basically, adding the ability for shotguns to be able to wreck the generators as well would mean that A) mercs like Proxy and Fletcher could continue to deal damage to the generator after their mines/stickies had been used, making them even better at destroying the generator, and that B) even more mercs would be able to suicide rush the generator and deal massive damage (Aura, Rhino) and would therefore make this tactic even more effective for the team, as they can run a Proxy, Stoker, Fletcher, Nader and an Aura to deal a massive amount of damage to it.
There is no need for this strategy to be made even more effective - because it does not promote skilled play, but promotes wave after wave of unskilled suicide rushes that are unpreventable.